JETman

Keep it up guys! As if watching a bunch of pasty white guys arguing over musical "authenticity" wasn't funny enough, Bev's general intelligence aside, this is like having a front row seat to a few mental defectives argue over whether blue or magenta is the new red. I'm sure Bob's happy, though. It's more press than he's gotten in 40 years.

So here we are in late ’77, and this famous great quartet with Dexter and Rufus and Eddie Gladden. Night Ballads : Dexter Gordon Quartet : Dexter Gordon (ts) George Cables (p) Rufus Reid (b) Eddie Gladden (d) Live "The Rising Sun", Montreal, PQ, Canada, November 9, 1977 GC: Yeah! EI: Now what was Eddie Gladden’s story, where was he from? GC: He was from Newark, and I don’t think he left there a lot, but boy, could he play! I think at first Billy Hart played a gig or something, then Victor Lewis played, but Victor I think was playing with Woody. I don’t know who sent Eddie Gladden, maybe it was Woody because they were both from Newark, but man, when Eddie Gladden came, he lit a fire under that rhythm section, that was it. Because there were different personalities. Rufus would play up on top sometimes, he’d play all over the bass, you know. And I think everybody had their role, but we all fit somehow. We all got in there and fit. And Eddie was a key guy. But everyone was key in that, everyone filled a role, and did stuff that to me was really amazing. And then Rufus started some stuff, he’d stop playing, it’s a ballad and it becomes solo piano. I decide to play and Rufus stops, and then Eddie stops, and then it’s solo piano. So I said, well I’m just going to play some stuff, so I’d play in, out of time, and then brought the time back in. And Dex was probably like “What the hell are they doing? What the hell’s going on now?” But Dexter was really good that way, he would really encourage and allow you space to do your thing. So we did that once, and then we did it the next time, and that became a part of the deal. So Dexter was instrumental in doing it, letting me play a little more solo piano. Because I was afraid of playing solo piano in those days, you know. Because as I said, I’m thinking about being a part of the rhythm section, not solo piano. But little by little, I got more joy out of it. Even when I’m playing solo piano at home, I’m thinking about playing with the band, but now I just get a lot of joy out of playing piano, you know, not playing this style, that style, having to play solo piano. Just playing the piano, not missing anybody, I’m just going to play the piano. EI: Right, beautiful. GC: That’s the way I think about it, and Dexter had a good part in that. http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/interview-with-george-cables-2.html

Each of those 5 Warwicks listed above was released in a decent enough sounding version by Fresh Sound. Most importantly, each of those versions is true to its original in terms of content and personnel. FWIW, The Soul of Jazz Percussion was produced by Teddy Charles.

And as I pointed out, I too have expressed my gratitude to Sue with my wallet. There is no fail safe here and there is no way to make sure it's done "properly" in each and every situation. Caveat emptor, as they say. A certain onus is on the buyer, for sure. However, my major issue in this argument is the blind labeling of people who have occasionally thought of their own interests as "unusual", "thieves" or even wholly "unappreciative" of the efforts of those in the biz. That is simply not the case in my case. I certainly would have liked to have "paid" the artist here, but at who's expense? With me, it would have meant NOT paying someone else. I have avoided buying too many things OVER and OVER simply because I have always sought to have more music in the collection, plain and simple. No harm. Carry on.

Yup! And please don't give us that hypocrisy crap again, there's really no need to go there. We all know some business is destroyed by bootleggers, we know some legit business is marred by inability of businesspersons (or mere unwillingness to do something ... how 'bout the Xanadu catalogue please?) ... so here and there, bootleggers step in and we are glad they do, but with someone such as Sue Mingus, I'm happy to re-buy stuff. She did a few good things: Revenge!, the UCLA set, now the glorious Mosaic box ... if the Ronnie's recordings get out as well, I'd love it, obviously! (Although, of course the music's in circulation so I might be a hypocrite if I buy it, but I don't give a flying poop, really.) This is an incredibly naive point of view, without even taking into account that (a) not many people are made of money AND (b) absolutely nobody here is interested in making others solvent more than they're interested in doing what's best for themselves. First of all, when the INA's were released, nobody was aware that they were bootleg CDs (after all it was early in the CD game, and Tower was selling them like hot cakes at prices which could hardly be termed "cheap"). Secondly, the material was so compelling that nobody in their right minds was thinking "oh wait, maybe Sue will release this stuff one day". Nobody knew she had the material in her possession, and even if a few did, it certainly was not widespread knowledge. Please DO NOT look down your nose at me (UNLESS, of course, you can actually "cast the first stone", as they say) -- I am relatively sure that at that time, and over the years, I have been fairly busy helping to make sure that thousands of artists (including Mingus, many times over) have been fairly (or unfairly, depending on one's point of view) compensated for their work. Not that I should need to explain myself to you, but buying music by the boatload does not exactly allow for making the types of purchases you describe "top priority". I was happy to see Ms. Mingus take a stand. That does NOT mean that I (or anyone, for that matter) was obligated to help fund her business endeavors. FWIW, while I was busy buying up that boatload of music I referred to earlier, I was, as a matter of course and fact, buying every single one of the Mingus Big Band releases AND occasionally, spending time and a few weak American dollars on their live performances. So please, leave the moronic and naive arguments to others. They don't sound especially convincing coming from someone your age who has not parted with as much time, energy, intensity, determination (and dinero) that myself and others here and elsewhere have.

That discog is slightly botched. "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress" is definitely on c. Bottom line: if you have the 2 late 80s Esoldun/INA releases -- c and d in that discography -- you do not need e. All 3 of c, d and e do incorrectly state the date as 4/18/64. Except those were bootlegs and the Revenge! release isn't. Without getting into THAT whole argument, so what? The INA's sound good and they were released 10 years before Revenge! Since they were available, and nobody had access to a crystal ball, it was just another case of "buy it now or lose the chance forever". If someone here has neither, by all means, go for the legit release. However, playing the "although I already have it, I'll buy the legit one anyway" game is often a "fool's game" and reeks of hypocrisy, at that. And if you believe that buying Revenge will encourage Ms. Mingus to release more, that simply isn't going to happen. I've been told that whatever she had left ended up in the Mosaic Jazz Workshop box.

That discog is slightly botched. "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress" is definitely on c. Bottom line: if you have the 2 late 80s Esoldun/INA releases -- c and d in that discography -- you do not need e. All 3 of c, d and e do incorrectly state the date as 4/18/64.

I thought that was the Tower of Babel. Yes, but I click on that link and see nothing on that page where I can reset my password. No, I think you may be thinking of the tower of babble.

Perhaps you haven't heard: “The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand, the largest experiment in anarchy that we have ever had.” ― Eric Schmidt

Shall I say it in French?

I don't want to be snarky about this but ... it's just irritating. Just is. No shit this is on Blue Note, and big surprise it's streaming on NPR. I woke up cranky, but really, this is dumb. That's sad. You must truly lead a tough life! If that's the case, the following "news" may make it even tougher for you. Don't look now, but Moran is just one of the "newer" pianists currently being targeted by Eicher (yes, the Manfred of the "dreamy, new-agey, sonically impotent" Eichers) as his latest "go to's". The others -- the all of a sudden new version of Thelonious Monk and Art Tatum all rolled into one, Craig Taborn, and the new Pi stud, David Virelles. Sleep well.

Yeah, no. That's why the concept that musicians have any less time to spend on the internet than we do is a huge fallacy. They are human just like the rest of us.

I appreciate your scholarly approach to the argument. However you did not answer my question as to the exasperation evident from the parties involved. Berne has appeared here twice -- both times to scold. Hammer has appeared here once (AFAIK) -- again, only to scold someone who throws as much hearsay at the virtual dartboard as he can with the sole purpose of seeing what will stick -- just because he feels like it. This was not the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last. This, I'm afraid, is the prevalent mentality in an atmosphere where keyboard muscles count for more than common sense. Ordinarily, I'd say that none of that matters. However, in our decidedly social media oriented world, this is how mindless rumor and conjecture get started and get to live far longer than they should. In answer to your question, I'd have to say that I was being insulting. I apologize for that. It's a result of my own continued disappointment with how the music's fan base operates in general (there are exceptions), without seeing that maybe, just maybe, the fan base may be jazz's main problem. I'm always amused when people here criticize the Hoff board for similar reasons.

It was him. Nobody else notices musicians dropping in here off and on just to set the record straight? What do you suppose one can properly infer from that? They've got other fish to fry? That the interests of musicians and fans tend to be dissimilar? But I'm sure that you've got a darker/more negative interpretation. C'mon Larry. Admin is not supposed to insult members. And honestly, my "dark/negative interpretations" (as you call them) are not a sign of a personality defect nor have they appeared out of thin air. Surely, even you couldn't have missed the exasperation coming from both Berne and Hammer in their posts. Seriously, there needs to be more actual "knowing" before thinking one knows (and speaking as such) in the jazz community at large. Assumptions abound, and to be frank, were I a musician, I'd stay far away, just for my own sanity. Think of that concept as being similar to athletes who refuse to read and get caught up in newspaper clippings.