I shoplifted at Border's today

[wesbed]

I went to Border's today. I took advantage (again) of the 'Buy 3, Get 1 Free' sale. I purchased my four jazz disks. On the way out of the store, I was caught 'shoplifting' by the Border's security equipment. At least, the security equipment beeped and alerted everybody to my obvious attempt to steal merchandise from the Border's store. Verdict: guilty. I received the 'guilty' beep.

One of the Border's clerks yelled, "Sir!" To my surprise, two customers yelled, "Excuse me, excuse me." There I was, with my four PURCHASED disks, no bag, with the RECEIPT wrapped around the disks. There I was, not running from the store, not looking nervous, and not hiding anything. I continued, calmly, walking right out the front door, into the parking lot, and headed for my car. Still, not running, and not acting in a nervous/excited manner. About one-fourth of the way across the parking lot, I looked back and saw the Border's rent-a-cop coming out of the door. He yelled, "Sir, did you purchase that stuff?" Like, am I going to reply with a, "No. I stole it. ALL of it?" I bit my tongue, and replied, politely, "Yes, I did. Here's the receipt." I waved my 4 CDs in the air, still wrapped in the store receipt, so he could see them clearly. The rent-a-cop yelled, "Ok, but... Sir? Ok, but..." I continued on my way, hopped into my car, and noticed the rent-a-cop returning to the store and his rent-a-cop duties.

I understand why Border's has the security equipment in place. I understand that the sales clerk didn't deactivate the security transmitters correctly. It was an honest mistake on the part of the Border's clerk. However, I do have a problem with being bossed around by a dumb machine that creates a beeping sound. I do have a problem with people I don't know yelling at me and running to the door trying to do something to me.

I've worked in the retail industry in the past. I may work in the retail industry again in the future. One never knows what the future holds. I know, from experience, that employees in retail stores take much more abuse than they deserve from the general public. Retail work is not as easy as it might appear. You never know how a customer will react, you never know what to expect. You receive, usually, the lowest pay and the worst hours. Guaranteed, you're working every weekend and holiday. But, somebody has to do the job. I'm glad retail workers are as pleasant as they are. They certainly don't get paid enough money to be so nice. My point, I do my best to treat retail workers with respect.

Still, when I'm innocent, I don't like to be told what to do by a non-thinking, beeping machine. I choose to not react like a sheep just because a machine beeps while I'm walking out of a store with MY merchandise in my hand. I'm not going to go back in the store like I've seen so many others do. I'm not going to be a jerk about it either. I'm going to keep walking and let the store staff members do what they will.

I believe, when I make a purchase, I've traded my asset, money, for the store's asset, CDs. Once I've traded my asset for the store's, we've both agreed to the sale, and the receipt has been printed, the CDs are MINE. I say, fuck Border's and fuck Border's security equipment. Fuck the 'guilty' beep. Fuck the rent-a-cop too. I'm a reasonable individual and I'm innocent. The CDs are mine, I paid for them. Yeah, just try to pry them out of my fucking hands. If the store clerk should attempt to remove the merchandise from my person, he is stealing from me, in my mind.

My experience, today in the Border's store, does make me wonder. What can the store workers do? What will they do if a customer 'beeps' and keeps walking? What are my rights regarding MY recently acquired assets (the CDs, in this case)?

Does anybody on this board have opinions/knowledge of what the law says? Does the law protect the customer or the retailer? Is the customer required to stop just because a piece of security equipment makes a beeping sound? Does the retailer have the right to chase after the customer and yell, "Sir, sir!!" to a point of making other customers start yelling too? Is this harassment on the part of the retailer? Is it acceptable to not act like a sheep?

I'm not going to do anything about it. I'm just curious and wondering.

Edited May 1, 2004 by wesbed

[Free For All]

I set off the security device about 1 out of 4 times at Borders. The sales clerks seem to be lax about de-activating the thingy. No big deal, I just turn around and let them check my stuff (usually they just wave me through)- I've never been hassled as far as a security dude. Actually the biggest hassle is taking the adhesive security thingy off once I get home.

Wesbed, I'd say don't let it ruin your day. As long as people shoplift, there will be hassles for all. Part of life. Why not just let them look at your receipt and be on your way? I always figure that I'm not doing anything wrong, so let them have at me.

Now, the most important question- whadja get?

Edited May 1, 2004 by Free For All

[wesbed]

Wesbed, I'd say don't let it ruin your day. As long as people shoplift, there will be hassles for all. Part of life. Why not just let them look at your receipt and be on your way? I always figure that I'm not doing anything wrong, so let them have at me.

Now, the most important question- whadja get?

I understand what you mean. It shouldn't be a big deal, and I should have just stopped and let them have their way. On the other hand, why should I? Why should anybody? Especially a PAYING customer. I worked for my money, I spent my time, I went to the store, and I paid my money. It's not my responsibility to make sure the store employees do their job correctly. Nor is it my responsibility to make certain the security equipment is working properly. I have money, the store maintains wares I desire. We make a trade, we agree on the trade, I'm done and on my way. The more customers who act like sheep while in retail stores, the more customers can expect to be treated like sheep the next time around. That said, I still do treat retail employees with respect. We need people working in the stores. The retail employees, by default, receive much more negative energy than they deserve.

Yes, the more important thing, what did I get? I tried to purchase the higher-priced titles. Titles I don't already have, that I'd normally purchase from an internet vendor in an attempt to get the better price. My goal was to purchase all titles in the higher price range, to maximize my savings. I purchased the following:

• Charlie Rouse - Bossa Nova Bacchanal
  
• Duke Ellington - Money Jungle
  
• Hank Mobley - The Flip
  
• Wes Montgomery - Full House (the K2)
  

I've been in a Wes Montgomery mood lately. And, loving the hell out of the very top-quality remastering of the Fantasy K2s. I'm certain I'll repeat this same pattern more than once before the month of May comes to a close. Yes, back to Border's again. B)

Edited May 1, 2004 by wesbed

[Free For All]

[*]Charlie Rouse - Bossa Nova Bacchanal

[*]Duke Ellington - Money Jungle

[*]Hank Mobley - The Flip

[*]Wes Montomery - Full House (the K2)

First off, good haul!

Secondly, I understand your angst. The "security overkill" that's rampant these days is a huge pain in the ass. I particularly love taking off my shoes and belt at the airport and standing there with my arms extended while Skippy the Security Dude checks me out.

We're all in the same boat- the innocent are constantly getting caught in the gears. I've just resigned myself to the reality that this is the way it's going to be for the forseeable future, whether in airports or retail stores. As is with many things, the technology has exceeded the operational skills of the average employee, so snafus will be frequent. I'm defiant about it- "Sure, check me out- you won't find anything wrong here!!!!".

I find being cooperative makes the whole unpleasant experience end sooner.

[Free For All]

Wes Montgomery - Full House (the K2)....I've been in a Wes Montgomery mood lately....

Speaking of Wes Montgomery, do you have Smokin' At The Half Note? It's a must-have. Put it on your list if you don't have it. Wes plus Wynton, PC and Jimmy Cobb. Exquisite!

EDIT: BTW, good thread title! You'll get LOTS of views I'll bet! :rsmile:

Edited May 1, 2004 by Free For All

[Jazzmoose]

Well, I'm working in retail now, and at one time worked as security for retail. (As you might guess, nothing irritated me at the time like the term "rent-a-cop". We ain't cops, we have no interest in being cops...but that's another story.) Do you have to stop? No. I usually do, but no, you don't have to. Sometimes I don't, and if I had gone through this as you did, the only thing I would have done differently, knowing what I know, is this: the minute that son of a bitch yelled out "Did you purchase that stuff?" like that, accusing me of theft in public, I would have spun around on my heels and demanded to see his boss. Not the store manager, the head of security, or if he was not on the premises, the store manager. Unless Borders is a lot different than Target, that was a no-no, and in any case was totally uncalled for.

[Jazzmoose]

One more point, about the security devices themselves. It really has little to do with the skill, or lack thereof, of the employee. This crap simply doesn't work the way it was designed. The damned things are supposed to be deactivated if you get it within three to four inches of the deactivation pad, and sometimes you could beat the goddamned thing to death on the pad, and it still beeps. This is like most drug testing done by employees. Plenty of false positives to catch the innocent, and most who they're trying to catch know how to beat the system...

[Dan Gould]

While I understand your attitude, wesbed, has it occured to you that the response of the other shoppers, the clerk, and the security guy might be directly related to your decision to keep walking? Do all shoplifters bolt from a store on a dead run? Or do they stroll out, ignore any beeping and just keep walking?

Furthermore, as you mention, retail workers are poorly paid and treated, and they deal with a lot of customers. Was it the same clerk who spoke the one who rang up the purchase? Maybe he didn't take note of your mug. Otherwise, no one has any clue who you are. Who's to say you didn't wrap a slip of white paper around four pilfered CDs and made for the door?

Basicallly, when you keep walking, you invite an over-reaction. You invite suspicion.

Why not stop, look over at the front end counter, wave the receipt at them, and THEN keep going. Instead, in your haste to not be seen as a "sheep", you invited the reaction you got, by just walking onward, safe in the knowledge that yes, you had paid for these and are not in the wrong. But when the machine beeps, what is the implication? What is the assumption? Reasonable people acknowledge the malfunction, and take five seconds to get confirmation that your items are paid for.

Another thing-ask for a bag next time, and fuck the environmental implications of that decision. Then, you've got a nice borders bag around your purchases, it looks a lot less suspicious than loose items being carried out the store by the guy who refuses to be seen as a sheep.

And last thing: Its not sheep-like behavior. Its accepting that mistakes happen, equipment malfunctions, and things don't always go smoothly. Its acting like a reasonable person.

I'll be heading to Borders today myself. And I guarantee that if the machine beeps, I will step back and wave my bag at the guy at the door. I won't keep walking without breaking stride. That's cause I try to be a reasonable person with my fellow human beings.

[brownie]

Don't know about the law in the USA. In France, security people can ask a person to stop and they can carry a check as long as the person is still inside the store. Once a person is outside the store, there is nothing the security people can do.

With the number of thefts on the rise, this type of incidents are more and more frequent.

And with the security devices not being set up properly, it can happen to anybody. Honest or not.

[Alexander]

As many of you know, I worked at Barnes and Noble for almost six years. For much of that time I worked in a supervisiory capacity, and for the last year or so I was the manager of the music department, so I have an intimate knowledge of this particular subject.

First of all, I want to echo Dan's statement: Consider the message your actions send. An innocent person with nothing to hide *usually* (obviously not always) stops and shows his or her receipt to the clerk or security guard when the security device beeps. Shoplifters (as Dan suggested) just keep walking. Only inexperienced kids run. An experienced shoplifter (and believe me, I saw a lot of them over the course of six years) just keeps walking at a measured pace and refuses to stop. They also tend to wave receipts at a distance, rather than letting us examine them.

I understand that this seems like overkill to you, but shrink (the retail word for theft) is a huge problem. Shortly before I left B&N, I was told in no uncertain terms that either I brought the shrink situation in the music department under control *by myself* (meaning: with no help from the company, and without spending any money on additional security equipment) or I would lose my job. So there's considerable pressure on employees to stop theft.

I also agree with Dan that you're not "acting like a sheep" when you stop and let an employee examine your purchase. Think of it as helping the employees do their job. No one is going to take an item you paid for away from you. They will simply glance at the receipt to make sure that all of the items you paid for are on it, and send you on your merry way. I can't tell you how glad I am to be out of retail, but I'll not soon forget the lessons I learned while working there...

[Upright Bill]

I used to work as a floor walker. A floor walker's job is to wander around the store looking like a customer, watching for shop lifters.

The situation here is apparently the opposite of that in France. The person that has stolen the item couldn't be stopped until they had moved to an area where it is obvious that they were not going to pay for the item. That is usually the outside of the store. We always walked up to the person, identified ourselves and asked to see their receipt. Sometimes asking for the receipt required something similar to a game of one-on-one football.

It was a crappy job. I also worked as a bouncer, that was worse.

[GA Russell]

Just want to add that when you set off the beeper, which you did, the suspicion is not that you didn't pay for what is in your bag. The suspicion is that you have in your pocket something else you didn't pay for.

That's why the procedure calls for you to reenter the store and allow your purchased items to be scanned again. If you set off the beeper the second time you try to leave, something is up!

These false positives have happened to everybody. It's my opinion that the purpose of the beeper machine is to discourage kids and casual shoplifters. Without that discouragement, a store couldn't stay in business.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Shortly before I left B&N, I was told in no uncertain terms that either I brought the shrink situation in the music department under control *by myself* (meaning: with no help from the company, and without spending any money on additional security equipment) or I would lose my job. So there's considerable pressure on employees to stop theft.

I don't quite understand this. If a person peruses the bins and decides to purchase something, he/she then walks out of the music dept. with the item and proceeds to make their way toward the battery of cash registers often located in another part of the store (at least down this way, I think??). Since the music dept. staff clearly can't stroll arm-in-arm the 100 feet or so to the cash register with every person who exits the music dept. with a Freddie Fender cd, what exactly would the overlords expect the music dept. staff to do? Ditto for Borders where the cash registers (at the Pentagon City store) and music dept are located at opposite ends of the store -- about 150-200 feet as the crow flies (over the maze of book shelves).

[JSngry]

You know you're innocent, but they don't. What's the sense of them even having a security system if they ignore it when it goes off?

Now, you want to get JUSTIFIABLY indignant, try shopping at Sam's. I did - once. Can't get in the store without a card, can't get out of it without showing a reciept on demand (which I understand is ALWAYS, with or without probable cause - which Border's DID have in your instance), and an "associates" walking the aisles and constantly giving you this attitude that says "we're LETTING you shop here - one screw up and you're TOAST!"

Screw Sam's, and screw Wal-Mart too. I got options, and going shopping in a self-contained police state that is ruining American small bizness ain't one of 'em.

And honestly, I don't see how asking you if you in fact purchased something is an accusation. It's a question, nothing more.

Cost of doing bizness in the City of Glass & This Modern world, dude.

[JSngry]

I don't quite understand this. If a person peruses the bins and decides to purchase something, he/she then walks out of the music dept. with the item and proceeds to make their way toward the battery of cash registers often located in another part of the store (at least down this way, I think??). Since the music dept. staff clearly can't stroll arm-in-arm the 100 feet or so to the cash register with every person who exits the music dept. with a Freddie Fender cd, what exactly would the overlords expect the music dept. staff to do? Ditto for Borders where the cash registers (at the Pentagon City store) and music dept are located at opposite ends of the store -- about 150-200 feet as the crow flies (over the maze of book shelves).

All our local B&Ns have registers in the music dept. Not so the Borders.

[7/4]

It's not unusual for the security system not to work. Alarm goes off and the guy at waves me off with a "no, it's broken wave".

Get's on my nerves too.

[Noj]

There used to be a Music Plus in Burbank that had no security whatsoever. I have friends who shoplifted like crazy from there, and were never caught--often swiping 6 or 7 discs at a time.

[maren]

Yeah, I would stop. It's easier. Sets a better example for my kid, too, if I'm shopping with him. I agree with everything Dan said (did you ever think you'd hear that?!).

Plus, once as I was leaving Macy's in a crowd, the alarm beeped wildly but no security guard was there to ask anyone to stop. Figured it wasn't me. Got home and found that the pants I'd bought (that my son needed to wear to family event IMMEDIATELY) had an extra hidden tag. One of those big plastic disks that you can't take off yourself without ruining the garment! The clerk had already removed TWO at checkout, so it wasn't HER fault that someone had committed security overload on this item! (Stanley Kowalski unpacking Blanche's bags in Streetcar: "What have we here -- a solid gold dress, I believe!")

Anyway, it would have saved me a round-trip-and-a-half if a security guard HAD stopped me!

[RDK]

It's all Bush and Ashcroft's fault!

[chris olivarez]

You should have stopped and give them what they wanted. Don't view it as an attack on your honesty because you did no wrong. Just view it as an annoyance.Life is full of them.

[Dan Gould]

I agree with everything Dan said (did you ever think you'd hear that?!).

Hey, both you AND Alex agreed with me! Gotta be some sort of record, right?

(And anyway, since I'm outta the Politics Forum, don't we have a better chance of agreeing with each other occasionally?

[Christiern]

" This crap simply doesn't work the way it was designed."

• Au contraire, Moose, I think the problem is that the crap works precisely the way it was designed--i.e., poorly.
  

[7/4]

" This crap simply doesn't work the way it was designed."

• Au contraire, Moose, I think the problem is that the crap works precisely the way it was designed--i.e., poorly.
  

[Jim R]

At a few of the local chain and independent stores where I buy CD's, the security system is effectively bypassed (I guess they know the technology doesn't work properly and will only cause them headaches if employed fully). The cashier hands the customer the merchandise AFTER the customer has walked through the detector device. Seems to work very well, too. Is there some good reason why Borders, B&N, Tower, etc, don't do this?

[rockefeller center]

wesbed, next time you're at that store, rob it and you're even.