Interviewing Bill Summers and Irvin Mayfield

[Big Wheel]

Today I did a last-minute in-studio interview with Bill Summers and Irvin Mayfield, who are in town with Los Hombres Calientes this weekend. They were supposed to come in at 12:30 and we had to be off the air by 1, since that's when the station's jazz programming ends for the day and the classical listeners start getting cranky if they don't get their classical on at 1 sharp (our classical audience tends to be, shall we say, a little anal). Summers and Mayfield were coming from an interview at another station and didn't make it in till about 12:40, so the time we had for introductions was scant.

Man, was that a mistake. I had no time to tell them what kinds of questions I would be asking them. Moreover, I didn't get much of a chance to size up what kinds of personalities I was dealing with. And in hindsight, I should have been way more careful in how I framed the questions. I try to ask complex and sometimes provocative questions so that we don't end up repeating all the usual inane blather that goes on in these kinds of promotional interviews. But one pitfall of complex questions (and hastily-arranged interviews) is that sometimes the interviewee interprets the question in a way completely different from the way you meant it.

I came up with my first question from some ideas that were bouncing around my head from a Q&A session Quincy Jones gave at school two days ago (in fact, the station had also done an interview with Quincy, which ran right before the Summers/Mayfield interview. Basically, Quincy talked about the intermixing of hip-hop and rap, and said that he feels that current efforts to combine the two genres are still incomplete--more melody and harmony are needed to connect hip-hop with the blues. So I prefaced my question with the part about Quincy's talk, and then said, "What are your thoughts on the merger of hip-hop and jazz? Do you see yourselves adding more hip-hop influences to your music in the near future?"

What I didn't do, and what I only realized I had failed to do once it was too late, was explain WHY I thought it was a pertinent question. If I had prefaced my question with "You guys include all manner of Afro-Caribbean and Afro-American styles in your music. What do you think about the merger of hip-hop and jazz?" things could have turned out very differently. Anyway, I think Summers kind of started out a little puzzled why I was spending our time talking about hip-hop, and Mayfield was downright irked that I had done so. He started out on a rant about how the critics are always asking jazz musicians these kinds of questions about hip-hop, but nobody's asking Jay-Z and Snoop about what they're planning on doing with jazz.

It got worse. My next question was something like, "You guys are one of the only groups that I know of with leadership that spans generations. Some have criticized what they see as a demise of the apprenticeship system in jazz. Do you think it's still an important element of the jazz world today?" Now, in my head, I was really only thinking of the dearth of working bandslike Blakey's or Miles's, but Mayfield didn't really take the question that way, and got even more irritated at the idea that there were no more mentors, period.

We took a break to play a couple of cuts from their latest CD. As soon as I flipped off the mikes, chaos ensued. I was surprised to discover that the two had almost diametrically opposite views on the jazz/hip-hop divide--the younger Mayfield is almost straight out of the Wynton Marsalis conservative school, and Summers is WAY more inclusive on these kinds of questions. My question had created a firestorm. Soon the two were at each other's throats, almost shouting, and nearly getting in my face as well. Expletives were flying. I seriously thought that I was about to be responsible for the breakup of the band. After a couple of minutes the very heated conversation turned to a debate about whether something necessarily has cultural/artistic value just because it's popular. "Do you know what the most popular movie in America in 1978 was?" said Mayfield. "Deep Throat. You think that's art, Bill, a movie about sucking dick?" So we get back on the air, and in an attempt to not throw any more fuel on the fire I decide to just open it up and let them talk about whatever they wanted. Except Bill evidently wanted to continue the debate they'd been having off-air, and started right in with talking about his opinion of the cultural value of pornography, which must have been interesting for the classical listeners flipping on their radios for the 1 PM classical show.

Easily the most entertaining, educational, and downright frightening interview I've ever done. (It was entertaining once I realized that these intense arguments between Mayfield and Summers may actually be fairly routine, and once I realized they weren't actually going to try to kill me.) In the end, I may be hearing from station management and possibly even the FCC. But it'll have been worth it.

[Jazzmoose]

Take note, MGM...THAT'S entertainment!

[chris olivarez]

Hey man some of the greatest radio has been the living on the edge type and of course some of the most catastrophic radio has been of this type as well. Maybe the extra prep would have helped you in this case but then again maybe not. At any rate it wasn't your fault that they were late.

Though I'm really not critical of your approach-hell that was interesting how they went after one another you probably would have been better off taking a more conservative route because time was obviously your enemy and like it or not that classical audience is entitled to have their program start on time. Maybe what you should have done is give your listeners a basic primer on the band,play some of their tunes,give them a chance to promote the gig etc and then set up a future appointment with the band to do the kind of interview you wanted to.

I wouldn't worry about it to much Bill and Irvin have done 4 cds together and probably have a pretty good idea where each other is coming from. I doubt that you have too many prudes and or conservative christians in your listening audience so I wouldn't worry too much about grief from the FCC and as for your boss just be upfront about how it went down and hopefully that person will have some input for you other than you're fired. It's a great radio story.Live and learn.

[JSngry]

Dude - "near-disaster" or not, that was one hell of an experience, and it was REAL.

Not all blessings are of the smooth variety. You were blessed.

[Dr. Rat]

Big Wheel: Been there, too. I once had a band in a brief fistfight in my studio after they conflicted about a topic I got them onto.

Two glorious words: live radio.

Long may it continue to exist, even if on the margins.

I admire the fact that you have the guts to do it. Live & learn.

You, of course, aren't the cause of the conflict.

I've often wondered about Los Hombres. Mayfield, as you say, is not quite the sort of musician the music would make you expect.

Good for you, and if you get any real heat on it, say so here, I'd be glad to back you 100% in writing and all that, and I'm sure many people here who'd have more impact would be more than willing to do so as well.

This is what public radio is supposed to be doing; these are the risks we are supposed to be taking; and this is the sort of revelatory stuff we are supposed to be dreaming of getting when we interview.

Can't always have it of course, and if you always push for it you are just a big pain in the ass, but man,

Thanks for the post,

--eric

--eric

[RainyDay]

While out looking for a copy of Dennis Gonzalez's Desert Wind, I bought a used copy of Mayfield's Half Past Autumn Suite and I like it very much. Wasn't sure what to expect since I've only heard him play with Los Hombres Calientes but I've have read a little about his playing away from that band. Anyway, a good choice and a good price.

What a great story about the interview! Wish I could have heard that. This story reminds of a review I read recently about the Alvin Ailey dancers that took Judith Jameson to task in a SERIOUS way for not incorporating hip hop into the music and dances they do. The reviewer said it made the entire production feel museum-like. It was downright patronizing and insulting.