randyhersom Posted January 15, 2004 Report Posted January 15, 2004 I'm quoting a post I was looking around for for obvious reasons. As to the question of time between tests, this was one of the reasons I suggested this change. Knowing that your test is coming up ought to mean that you are moving forward on your compilation, and should even solicit assistants/participants ahead of time. I think the sequence should be this: Test #X announces he is shipping/Test #X + 1 should solicit interested parties. Then, by the time Answers are being discussed (not the guessing, the answers), the next test should be shipping. But we could definitely tighten this up. I'd like to see a statement of purpose here on this thread. The thread itself should be kept fairly short so the answers can be easily found. Quote
couw Posted January 15, 2004 Report Posted January 15, 2004 I am not sure how your posts refers to the title of the threas. Sorry for that and sorry if I take it in a completely different direction than what you had in mind. I would very much prefer when the person who sends out X+1, would postpone sending out as long as seems needed, based on the developments in the Answers Thread of X. If X+1 is sent out the day X breaks the answers, disks start arriving a mere day after that, meaning X+1 should open his Guess Thread. We had approximately one week "postage pause" between the end of the discussions on the BFT 4 answers and the start of BFT 5 guesses. That seems very tight already. Making it tighter costs fun I think. It's supposed to be fun, not an occupation. Linking to the title of this thread, I do think it would be nice to have a FAQ of sorts in this particular forum. Probably the answers should contain links to existing threads as many things have been discussed already. Some Question to include: Q - what is this BFT thing? A - BFT means Blindfold Test. It's a cool invention which forces you to listen with an open ear and without preconceived ideas. A member of this Board compiles a disk and sends it out to the participants in the Test. They listen to it and post their ideas in a specific Thread. Q - Can I participate even if I won't be able to make any correct guesses? A - Yes. Q - how do I sign up to receive a disk? A - the compiler of a BFT will start a thread usually titled "Blindfold Test #X - sign up" or something similar. Follow the instructions the compiler gives you there. Q - I want to do a compilation myself. How does that work? A - you sign up in this thread. You my want to check this thread first. It is a listing of past and upcoming BFTs. You can pick the next available position or request to do any later test. Q - What kind of music can I include on my BFT disk? A - anything goes; discuss here Q - What's with the costs? Do I have to pay? A - the consensus of the Board is that what comes around, goes around and everyone will receive as many disks as she sends out in the end. And there is Karma as well and that works for most. In other words, there is no strict need to pay for the disks. Some compilers may ask for assistence, wither monetary or in form of disks or postage. If you feel uneasy in receiving without giving, offer help yourself. discuss here Q - I cannot/prefer not to make my own compilation, can I participate anyhow? A - Yes, "free-riders" are allowed. You may still want to offer help in copying or distribution. There are more questions I expect and I just made up the answers on the fly, they will need some editing I think. Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 15, 2004 Report Posted January 15, 2004 John, I do believe you are overstating the overlap just a bit, at least when the next BFT originates in the States. First, US compilers are trying to ship to Europe, etc., a week in advance. And on top of that, while delivery may take only a day in Europe, in the States, its typically a day only if its within the same metropolitan area. Otherwise, its anywhere from three days to even 8 or 9. Someone in Miami got their disc four days ahead of mine, and I am directly north of Miami and got the disc from the same person, presumably shipping at the same time. So, it seems to me that if US compilers give a 7 day advance on outside shipping, and European compilers do the same thing, there would still be at least a week of "Answer Discussion". Sometimes that's enough, sometimes it isn't. But I do think we could tighten things up a bit without intruding on the attention each BFT gets. As for the topic of this thread, I do think that what's needed isn't so much a thread but something one of us should write up that B3-er can post on the forum, just as he's posted a "Political Forum Rules" on that page. Then it will be prominently displayed, maybe with a pinned message at the top which says "Look for the FAQ page at the top of this forum" or something like that. Your list of Qs and As was pretty good, John! Quote
couw Posted January 15, 2004 Report Posted January 15, 2004 (edited) Dan, sorry about that postage thing. I should have known as disks have only started popping up on the other coast recently. I guess youse over thair are better judges of your own postage system and the time it needs. I myself have no problem with the little breathing time like we had now between the tests. If this forum lies fallow for a couple of days that's just the calm before the storm and you know we're all trying to keep up with our evergrowing collections to do better in the next test.- The FAQ thing may indeed be posted in a sticky thing like the political rules. They need to be written first though. So, anyone who feels the writer fighting to get out of him/her, please contribute. And somebody please elaborate on that stupid "yes" answer to my Q #2! Edited January 15, 2004 by couw Quote
randyhersom Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Posted January 15, 2004 (edited) Q - Can I participate even if I won't be able to make any correct guesses? A - Yes. Yes. The moderator who sends out the disks is looking for reactions to the music. You don't really know if they are hoping you guess right or hoping you guess wrong. But you can be sure thay want to hear from you. If you don't like something, say so. Often that contributes to a lively discussion. But please post something about what you just listened to. Edited January 15, 2004 by randyhersom Quote
couw Posted February 6, 2004 Report Posted February 6, 2004 (edited) new & improved version. please comment. GENERAL Q - What is this BFT thing? A - BFT means Blindfold Test. A Blindfold Test presents you music without telling you what it is, or who are playing. This forces you to listen with an open ear and without preconceived ideas and opinions. Q - Why have a Blindfold Test? A - There are several reasons for doing these Blindfold Tests. First of all, it is fun. Secondly, you will be listening to music you probably have not heard before; you may discover something you like a lot. Thirdly, it will allow you to sharpen your senses when listening to music. If you are going to express an opinion about it, you cannot rely on generally accepted or otherwise openly expressed opinions, as you would not know where to look for these. Furthermore, you can test your knowledge of music by trying to guess who, what, where, and when. Lastly, others will share their impressions and opinions with you on the music. An informed discussion is always helpful to improve your knowledge and ability to express ideas. Q - Who makes these Blindfold Tests? A - Any member of this Board can compile a disk and then send it out to the participants in the Test. There are some rules though (see below). Q - Who can participate in these Blindfold Tests? A - Any member of this board may sign up to receive a disk. FOR THE LISTENER Q - How do I sign up to receive a disk? A - The compiler of a BFT will start a thread usually titled "Blindfold Test #X - sign up" or something similar. Follow the instructions of the compiler in that thread. Q - The disks already seem to have been sent out, can I still sign up? A - Yes, post a request in the sign up thread for someone to send you a copy. Q - What is the task of the participants? A - They listen to the disk and may then post their ideas in a destined thread, usually titled "Blindfold Test #X ? discussion" or similar. Posting is not compulsory, but very much appreciated. Apart from wanting to present some own favourite music, the compiler of course made and sent out the disk to receive reactions on it. Q - Will the correct answers be revealed eventually? A - Yes, the compiler will post the correct answers in a separate thread after some time. Q - Can I participate even if I will not be able to make any correct guesses? A - Yes, the BFT is not about showing off how much you know; it is about sharing music and opinions about music, and about learning to appreciate new styles and artists. All opinions are equal, just as all tastes are equal. Q - What's with the costs? Do I have to pay? A - No. The consensus of the Board is that what comes around goes around and everyone will receive as many disks as are sent out eventually. Then there is Karma, and that works for most. In other words, there is no strict need to pay for disks. Some compilers may ask for assistance, either monetary or in form of copying or postage. If you feel uneasy in receiving without giving, you may offer help yourself. Discuss here Q - I cannot/prefer not to make my own compilation, can I participate anyhow? A - Yes, "free-riders" are allowed. You may offer help in copying or distribution if you feel uneasy about receiving without giving. Q - I am interested in a previous Blindfold Test disk. How can I get it? A - You may post a request in this thread for someone to make you a copy. FOR THE COMPILER Q - I want to do a compilation myself. How do I go about that? A - You sign up in this thread. You may want to check this thread first. It is a listing of past and upcoming BFTs. You can pick the next available position or request to do any later test. Q - What kind of music can I include on my BFT disk? A - Anything goes, but remember that this is a jazz discussion board. The selected tracks should at least tangentially be related to what is commonly called jazz music. Discuss here Q - When do I post my announcement and call for participants? A - Make your call early enough. There are a lot of logistic issues to deal with and it will need time before all have read your call to sign up as well. As a rule, requesting sign ups shortly after the previous compiler starts the discussion not only shows good style by not interfering with another BFT, but will also allow you enough time to get your disks out. Q - When do I send my disks out? A - Please wait with sending out your disks until the correct answers to the previous Blindfold Test have been posted. You should allow discussion of these answers before your own Test takes the limelight. It is better to be careful and not post too early than to disturb the discussion of your predecessor. There is no need for the next test to arrive the day after people have stopped contemplating the previous.Much of course depends on the speed of postal delivery. Disks going out to overseas addresses are idealy sent out up to a week earlier. Q - Postage is expensive; I cannot afford it. Does this mean I cannot do a compilation? A - No. Some people have less money than others. This does not mean they have less interesting taste in music. You can request help from fellow board members to assist you in your test by copying and/or posting disks. Discuss here Edited February 7, 2004 by couw Quote
couw Posted February 6, 2004 Report Posted February 6, 2004 and THAT post makes me MASTER OF THE GROOVE! Quote
Dan Gould Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 John, You did a fine job, I would clarify a few things though: On the issue of what music is fair game, I would not say that it is truly "anything goes" but rather that people have chosen music tangentially related to jazz in addition to recognized jazz styles. In other words, we don't want someone to program speed metal, right? Well, "anything goes" suggests that speed metal is just fine, and I'm reasonably confident that the consensus of the board would not agree. On the issue of when a new BFT should be shipped, I think its fine to say that the discussion of answers should be underway, but a sentence about allowing for postal time from the States to Europe and vice versa is a good idea. In general, discs shipped overseas should go one week before inter-State or European discs should ship. Oh, and one other thing, you should know that "favorite" is not spelled with a "u". Other than that, great job! With those minor changes, we just need to get B3-er to post the message, preferably (I think) the same way that the Political Forum Rules are displayed, above the thread list as a separate link, though of course it could just be pinned, although there are a lot of pinned items already. Quote
rockefeller center Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) Oh, and one other thing, you should know that "favorite" is not spelled with a "u". In British English (which is the version that is tought in Europe) it is indeed spelled "favourite." edit: crappy spelling Edited February 7, 2004 by rockefeller center Quote
couw Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 Oh, and one other thing, you should know that "favorite" is not spelled with a "u". In British English (which is the version that is tought in Europe) it is indeed spelled "favourite." yes, and taught is spelled with AU, not with OU (or did you mean thought?) Quote
couw Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 thanks for the suggestions Dan, I'll revise. I wanted to add some thing about MP3s as people have been using those to distribute disks to the far end of the brazilian jungle. Quote
couw Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 I've edited my post above. on the issue of mp3s; this is a bit of a sensitive subject. Maybe we should not mention it in the FAQ after all. Quote
Daniel A Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 I wanted to add some thing about you-know-what as people have been using those to distribute disks to the far end of the brazilian jungle. If you're referring to that circular device which is used for storing music, I believe it's usually spelled with a "c". I agree with your last post. Nothing prevents such matters to be discussed in PM:s, though. Quote
couw Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 If you're referring to that circular device which is used for storing music, I believe it's usually spelled with a "c". disk or disc, what's the difference. both are okay AFAIK, I have always used the K version. Quote
Dan Gould Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 If you are going to insist on "favourite" then I think there should be a nod toward American spellings with "disc". Quote
Daniel A Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) Sorry, John! I'm only joking, of course. The Merriam-Webster dictionary says (from the disk entry): 4 a : a thin circular object b usually disc : a phonograph record http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book...tionary&va=disk Edited February 7, 2004 by Daniel A Quote
Brad Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 On the subject of what goes, I think we could use more discussion. Since this is a jazz board I think it should be jazz or jazz related. I know others may disagree but just because it influenced jazz doesn't mean it's "jazz", which I guess is also an open question. We should leave it the person doing the disc but I feel it must have some reasonable relationship to jazz. Another point is how many discs. I guess we can leave this the person doing it but frankly my preference is just one. I know that we all have a lot to listen to and I'd like to confine it to one. At least mine will be one. And, yes, I know this has been discussed before. Quote
Dan Gould Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 Brad, I was also going to reopen the discussion of quantity of music. We've now had two double disc tests and I think its an open question whether this has turned out to be a manageable amount of music, both for the process of listening and evaluating as well as the question of keeping track of what tune is being discussed when there are so many "in play". Quote
Brad Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 I really think it's a good idea, Dan. I think focusing on one disc and giving it repeated listens would help the discussion. I find a double disc also gets a little overwhelming. I also think it forces the person to really focus on what he or she really wants to get across to the listeners. Quote
Dan Gould Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 True, Brad! Just as deadlines focus the mind, space limitations make the compiler focus his attention on the very best/most important tracks. Quote
mikeweil Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 True, Brad! Just as deadlines focus the mind, space limitations make the compiler focus his attention on the very best/most important tracks. I can think of themes that are better brought across on two discs. I found the two discs approproate, especially considering it will take years before you can get another turn. Quote
JSngry Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 No comment on my 2-discer, obviously, but I really enjoyed Randy's. But then again, I knew most of the material, and have known most of it for a while, some of it for many years. It was quite "easy" listening for me, and totally pleasurable. I'd think it would be fair to say that that if you like most of what's included, two discs go down smoother than if you don't. Fair enough? As far as the "jazz-related" thing, good luck! We all have different conceptions of where that goes. Leave it to the compiler, I say, and express personal displeasure as needed. So far, there's been nothing on any of the tests that falls outside my personal concept. Bottom line, really - if you don't like it, you can always ask for a refund! Quote
couw Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 I hope I have somehow reflected what Jim AND Dan wrote here WRT the kind of music that goes. It really is very open I think, yet I can imagine some need the lead/hint to keep close to jazz (whatever that may be; no problems thus far AFAIC). I can imagine Jim can even hear the merits of jazz in speed metal and I can imagine hearing it myself as well. Yet many on this board probably can't, so think of those people as well when compiling your disk I'd say. Then, with respect to the 2 disk thing. I had my troubles to master Jim's test, just because it was so much to take in, and I liked most of it. I had my troubles with Randy's test as well; where it was mostly the sequencing that put me off, but certainly also the quantity to put my ears around. Indeed, if you know most of the tracks already, that is no problem. If you don't, it may be. I have enjoyed both BFTs a lot, in spite of all blahblahblah complains that it may have been too much. The only thing that should be clear is that NO, two disks is not a prerequisite to participate as a compiler. One disk is enough. Half a disk is enough. Twenty disks is also okay. Just do it. But think of the costs, think of what you ask of your public, and think of the expectations you might put on others. Quote
JSngry Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 I think I'm gonna go Zen on my next BFT and send out 100 discs of silence. That way, if you don't like what you hear, it's YOUR fault. Quote
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