mikeweil Posted October 19, 2003 Report Posted October 19, 2003 I just read in Ira Gitler's "Jazz Masters of the 40's" that Tadd Dameron's "Mating Call" LP was originally supposed to be a quintet date. Now is there any knowledge about the missing horn? Kenny Dorham perhaps? Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 21, 2003 Report Posted October 21, 2003 I think Donald Byrd would be a likely candidate. He probably missed the date because he had two others that day. Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 21, 2003 Report Posted October 21, 2003 Yeah, Byrd definitely seems likely, since I am pretty sure by this time he'd done other dates with Coltrane for Prestige. But frankly, I wish I could go in the way back machine, make it KD who had the gig, and do whatever it took to make sure he made it! Quote
JSngry Posted October 21, 2003 Report Posted October 21, 2003 How about Idrees Sulieman for that vintage bebop flavor? He was doing Prestige dates at the time. Dorham, however was on Dameron's previous Prestige date, so there would be a precedent, I guess. Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 21, 2003 Report Posted October 21, 2003 Sulieman is an excellent guess, Jim. Better than my Byrd suggestion. Tadd would have gone for someone connected with the bop days, probably, and Idrees was in Diz's big band, wasn't he? Quote
mikeweil Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Posted October 21, 2003 (edited) Good suggestion, I think both Dorham and Sulieman seem plausible, but we'll probably never know. But he was still alive when the book was published - Gitler didn't want to harm his reputation. Edited October 21, 2003 by mikeweil Quote
JohnS Posted October 22, 2003 Report Posted October 22, 2003 I love this disc, as far as I'm concerned the trumpet player isn't missed. The date seems complete in itself although I wouldn't have minded a remake with another horn. Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 22, 2003 Report Posted October 22, 2003 I think it's an excellent session as it is, too, John. I guess Bob Weinstock could answer this question, but who would want to bother him with it? Quote
mikeweil Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Posted October 22, 2003 I think it's an excellent session as it is, too, John. Of course it is an excellent session as it is, I love it!!! Coltrane plays more beautiful on this one than on any other date in the late fifties - but as beautiful as Dameron could write for two horns ..... just curious, you know Quote
mikeweil Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Posted October 22, 2003 Now is there any knowledge about the missing horn? Perhaps I should have said "missing horn player" instead of "missing horn"! I don't miss the second voice, either, never did. Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 22, 2003 Report Posted October 22, 2003 I did not mean to suggest that I thought that you were complaining, Mike. I'm sure that you do enjoy this session. Your question about the missing trumpeter was quite reasonable, though. Trane was nowhere near his best in 1956, as he was still strung out on heroin. A lot of his playing before he went cold turkey is rather muddled. This Dameron session is a major exception to that rule, and is outstanding by any standard. It is also much better than a lot of those rather shallow blowing sessions that Prestige recorded. Quote
mikeweil Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Posted October 22, 2003 No misunderstandings here. I DO enjoy it for sure. Fully agree with you on overall quality of the session as compared to Prestige's blowing session dates and Coltrane's playing on these! Quote
JohnS Posted October 23, 2003 Report Posted October 23, 2003 I did not mean to suggest that I thought that you were complaining, Mike. I'm sure that you do enjoy this session. Your question about the missing trumpeter was quite reasonable, though. Niether did I, it's just one of those dates that's near perfect. For me it's the best place to appreciate Tadd's lovely compositions. Quote
mikeweil Posted October 25, 2003 Author Report Posted October 25, 2003 I did not mean to suggest that I thought that you were complaining, Mike. I'm sure that you do enjoy this session. Your question about the missing trumpeter was quite reasonable, though. Niether did I, it's just one of those dates that's near perfect. For me it's the best place to appreciate Tadd's lovely compositions. Small group wise, it is damn close to perfection. Orchestra-wise, I like this one best: Quote
Late Posted October 26, 2003 Report Posted October 26, 2003 What if the missing "horn" was a guitar? Kenny Burrell? That would have been some nice spice. Quote
Swinging Swede Posted October 26, 2003 Report Posted October 26, 2003 Or Ray Draper on the tuba!? Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Yeah, Tubby the Tuba! Isn't that awful on that date with Trane? It's almost like a prank, and sure brings a grimace or a chuckle! Quote
Dan Gould Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 I just got back from my interview with Bob Weinstock. The answer is ....... None of the above, because Gitler is wrong. The date was always intended to be a quartet, not a quintet. Quote
king ubu Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 I just got back from my interview with Bob Weinstock. The answer is ....... None of the above, because Gitler is wrong. The date was always intended to be a quartet, not a quintet. Dan, how was it? Please keep us informed where to get it, or share some impressions! Glad to know no one missing on "Mating Call"! Wonderful album just as it is, and some of Trane's best playing up to that date! ubu Quote
paul secor Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 Interesting to know that it was intended as a quartet date. It always sounded just right that way to me. Quote
Lazaro Vega Posted February 15, 2004 Report Posted February 15, 2004 Mating Call was early on (1956) for Trane playing in an exposed, out front lone horn position -- there's not much else to compare it to like that, while his work with Miles at that time was still coming into its own....Love Dameron, but 1958's Soultrane is the killer quartet date before Giant Steps, don't you think? Especially for Good Bait. Quote
mikeweil Posted February 15, 2004 Author Report Posted February 15, 2004 I agree that Coltrane sounds much more"together" on this date than on others of the period. A beautiful record, a real gem, and perhaps my favourite early Trane. And Dameron's compostions are great on that one! Quote
brownie Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 Before 'Soultrane' there was 'Traneing in/John Coltrane with the Red Garland Trio' which was issued right after the 'Coltrane' session (with Johnny Splawn and Sahib Shihab). That one was the first album released under John Coltrane's name. 'Traneing In' was a beautiful quartet date. 'Slow Dance' is among the gems from that date. Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 I love those quartet dates! "Traneing In", "Soultrane", and also "Settin' the Pace" are probably my favourite early Coltrane albums. Terrific stuff! I agree there's not much to compare "Mating Call" to, but if you compare it with Trane's playing on other more or less contemporary dates ("Whims of Chambers", the quartet date with Drew, Chambers & Philly Joe, the Miles dates), I really think his playing has much more authority on "Mating Call". Of course my being a big Dameron fan may also take a part in that... ubu Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 I just spoke to Ira Gitler on the phone and asked him about the "missing instrument". He denied saying this and asked me to tell him where he said it and I got the book out. Best I can find is "..., but with one horn there is no chance for the texture of the usual Dameron ensemble to come through........" Did I miss a page, or do you have another edition of the book? Quote
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