AOTW July 6-12 2008 ANY Freddie Roach Blue Note Album

[Soul Stream]

I noticed there had never been an AOTW featuring the great Freddie Roach. I'm a huge fan of all his recordings, especially the Blue Note years. So, it's kind of hard to pick just one to talk about. Brown Sugar always seemed to have a special magic to it. It's great to hear Joe Henderson in this setting. He and Freddie have a real nice interaction. The group is spot on and the songs are just right. "Good Move" with Hank Mobley is perhaps a little more down the jazz path, but for a blues setting, Brown Sugar is a subtle masterpiece.

After further discussion, I've decided to make ANY Freddie Roach Blue Note up for discussion. Everyone has their favorites and as availability is scarce, let's open it up. ALL his Blue Notes are classics in my opinion!!!

Edited July 8, 2008 by Soul Stream

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

"Brown Sugar" was the first Roach I bought. I'd like to say it was the cover that attracted me but, after the label was sold to Liberty, BNs became extremely hard to find in Britain, and I'd just started earning enough to afford them (BNs were VERY expensive here). So I picked this up because it was one of not too many organ BNs around. In the same shop, I got "Oh baby" and "Along came John", on a rare trip to London.

And, when you get those three all on one day, well, how do you react when you get them home?

By chance - because I hadn't heard any of those before - all three were quite different, so there was no feeling of X is better than Y with me. Immediately, "Oh baby" was a PLAYING album. "Along came John" was a RHYTHM album. And "Brown sugar" was a FEELING album.

And "Brown sugar" has remained a feeling album for me. In fact, apart from "Good move", which is in my vew his least effective album, ALL Freddie's albums are about feeling. And specifically about black feeling. I think it was Rhoda Scott (or maybe Gloria Coleman) who described Freddie as, apart from Charles Mingus, the most Afro-centric person she knew.

Freddie knew exactly how to convey that feeling. As well as an organist, Freddie was a playwright, and he knew all about how to tell a story with great dramatic effect - and he told it through the music as well as through his sleeve notes. One of the great things about BN, and later Prestige, was that they let him write his own notes (I just CAN'T see those sleeve notes coming out on RCA Victor or Columbia ) If I could go back in time and attend any recording session, this and "All that's good" would be my choices.

MG

[Big Al]

Oh how I want to hear these sessions!!! I keep hoping I'll stumble across TOCJs of them someday.

(Edited to change from the singular to the plural, since all of Roach's albums have been listed for discussion, and I haven't heard GOOD MOVE in years, that being the only session of his I've ever heard)

Edited July 9, 2008 by Big Al

[Cliff Englewood]

Water re-issued this within the last few years, that's how I got my copy. I have to admit that I went looking for this one because of Joe Henderson, as I was going throught a major J H phase, and wanted to get every Blue Note session that he was on.

I like this one a lot but as usual, don't play it enough.

[Cliff Englewood]

Front and back covers;

[WD45]

Seeing those covers on the back makes me think that there should be a Mosaic Select in there somewhere.

[Soul Stream]

By MG: So I picked this up because it was one of not too many organ BNs around. In the same shop, I got "Oh baby" and "Along came John", on a rare trip to London.

Wow! Now THAT is a record score moment! Three of my favorite BNs in one day. I had a similar experience... when I discovered you could order the old Blue Notes on CD from Japan. All those albums I always drooled over in the Blue Note album cover books. I got Along Came John and 'Mo Greens Please on the same day and it really changed my life.

Also by MG Rhoda Scott (or maybe Gloria Coleman) who described Freddie as, apart from Charles Mingus, the most Afro-centric person she knew

I'd LOVE to hear more stories of Freddie by people who knew him. I asked John Patton about Freddie and all I remember him saying is that he LOVED Freddie Roach. I think they must have been friends and John definately loved him organ playing!

By WD45 Seeing those covers on the back makes me think that there should be a Mosaic Select in there somewhere.

Definatley. Can't believe Mosaic has slept on Freddie Roach AND Baby Face Willette. But to tell you the truth the Japanese RVGs sound so good that I don't think I need the Mosaic treatment. Not unless they made it a FULL box, not a select, with some real research involved in the booklet. Also, pulled out my vinyl copy of Brown Sugar last night, it's only a VG copy, but that stuff sounded GREAT cranked up!

[sidewinder]

Just dug out the original issue mono NY LP of 'Brown Sugar' and it is a real pleasure to listen to this one again. I would agree that this one is a 'feeling' album (a real spiritual/gospel influence on this session) and it's also notable for one of those great Joe Henderson cameo appearances where his flexibility comes to the fore yet again.

Incidentally, I notice that the side of my LP has the title label right at the top instead of in the middle like the usual Blue Notes. First time I've ever seen that !

Also - the version of 'The Midnight Sun Will Never Set' on this LP is an absolute classic.

Edited July 8, 2008 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

after the label was sold to Liberty, BNs became extremely hard to find in Britain, and I'd just started earning enough to afford them (BNs were VERY expensive here).

Around £3 of the old money back in the mid-60s, big money back then. A King's Ransom today !

[Man with the Golden Arm]

One of my favorites too - got me into the hipper Blue Note organ sound upon hearing the title cut a way back when.

Was googlin and found an interesting Grandassa shot:

source

Edited July 8, 2008 by Man with the Golden Arm

[Soul Stream]

One of my favorites too - got me into the hipper Blue Note organ sound upon hearing the title cut a way back when.

Was googlin and found an interesting Grandassa shot:

source

OH MAN!!!!! WHAT AN AWESOME PICTURE!!!! THANKS!!! I've always wondered about those models and that agency!

[Soul Stream]

Just a little bump to let everyone know that I've added Good Move as an alternative as it seems Brown Sugar is basically OOP these days...

[Clunky]

Sadly I'm missing Brown Sugar, recently I picked up NYC editions of "All that's good" and "Mo greens" both of which I prefer to Good Move. IIRC half of the tracks on Good are excellent where as the others struck me as ok but nothing special.All that's good" is superb. very different form your average grease session.

[Soul Stream]

Sadly I'm missing Brown Sugar, recently I picked up NYC editions of "All that's good" and "Mo greens" both of which I prefer to Good Move. IIRC half of the tracks on Good are excellent where as the others struck me as ok but nothing special.All that's good" is superb. very different form your average grease session.

Maybe we'd be better off making this a "Catch All" Freddie Roach AOTW. Meaning, hey...let's discuss ANY of these Freddie Roach Blue Note albums!!! I love 'em ALL. "All That's Good" REALLY surprised me, at first I didn't dig it...then after a while I REALLY got into it. All Freddie's albums were really well thought out if nothing else, and All That's Good has a lot of unique and imaginative work in it.

[samnat]

I also got lucky this past weekend finding a "New York USA" copy of both Freddie Roach "Brown Sugar" and Jimmy Smith "Home Cookin'" at two DIFFERENT stalls at a weekend multi-seller garage sale in Northern Virginia. Looking forward to spinning that Roach tonight.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

One of my favorites too - got me into the hipper Blue Note organ sound upon hearing the title cut a way back when.

Was googlin and found an interesting Grandassa shot:

source

OH MAN!!!!! WHAT AN AWESOME PICTURE!!!! THANKS!!! I've always wondered about those models and that agency!

Wonderful! And will yer look at that line-up of LP sleeves! "Oh baby", "All that's good", "Natural soul", "Brown sugar" and "Good gracious"!

Awesome!

MG

[JSngry]

More about Grandassa (after Grandassaland, the name that African nationalist leader Carlos Cooks applied to Africa) & AJASS (the African Jazz-Art Society & Studios):

http://ncanewyork.com/2006_flies/revisted.htm

http://ncanewyork.com/vol2no1/vol2_no2_page_2.htm

http://yeyeolade.wordpress.com/2006/12/15/...is-beautiful-2/

http://www.cocojams.com/clothing.htm

http://www.artaboutus.net/artist_klytus_smith.html

This is all a bit of a revelation (although not really a "surprise") to me, and goes straight to the core of where Freddie Roach was coming from. "Required knowledge" in my book, better late than never, and thank god for the internet.

Also, as one (of many, I believe) who thought that the name "Grandassa" was a bit of a put-on & the agency a bit of a sideline/hustle/whatever,, all I can say is that I am sorry. Deeply sorry. I can but plead ignorance, and now, shame.

1963 Clara Lewis, Nomsa Brath, Brenda Deaver & Jean Egyptia Gumbs.

This is a story that needs a louder and more prominent telling!

[JSngry]

http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/421534/

[JohnS]

Despite having all the Freddie Roach Blue Notes they probably find their way to my cd player or turntable less frequently than his organ playing stable mates. Not sure why as Good Move is immediately attractive. Brown Sugar, perhaps because of the couple of moody tracks took a couple of playings to get into but it's a rewarding set with the added bonus of some nice playing by Joe Henderson.

The remainder I have on vinyl but I'll be getting them out over the next couple of days, I can't recall the music on Down To Earth and All That's Good at all though Mo Greens has had a play not too long ago. Should be interesting.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

More about Grandassa (after Grandassaland, the name that African nationalist leader Carlos Cooks applied to Africa) & AJASS (the African Jazz-Art Society & Studios):

http://ncanewyork.com/2006_flies/revisted.htm

http://ncanewyork.com/vol2no1/vol2_no2_page_2.htm

http://yeyeolade.wordpress.com/2006/12/15/...is-beautiful-2/

http://www.cocojams.com/clothing.htm

http://www.artaboutus.net/artist_klytus_smith.html

This is all a bit of a revelation (although not really a "surprise") to me, and goes straight to the core of where Freddie Roach was coming from. "Required knowledge" in my book, better late than never, and thank god for the internet.

Also, as one (of many, I believe) who thought that the name "Grandassa" was a bit of a put-on & the agency a bit of a sideline/hustle/whatever,, all I can say is that I am sorry. Deeply sorry. I can but plead ignorance, and now, shame.

1963 Clara Lewis, Nomsa Brath, Brenda Deaver & Jean Egyptia Gumbs.

This is a story that needs a louder and more prominent telling!

Thanks Jim. Deeply indebted to your research on this.

Is George Braith related to any of those people involved in that movement?

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Very interesting that Lou Donaldson played the first AJASS/Grandassa gig in 1962. It must have been he who recommended Grandassa Models to Blue Note for the cover of "Natural soul" - and the TITLE means a lot more than I thought it did.

One doesn't hear anything about this side of Lou's story - except when you listen to "Hot dog"

MG

[JSngry]

Is George Braith related to any of those people involved in that movement?

My thought as well.

I do not know.

[andybleaden]

Wow that first shot you found was awesome

I have all Freddie's material which I finally sourced when selling up the lps and getting the CDs

LIstening to the story of scoring the BJP and Freddie Roach reminded me of a swap I did of an old Donald Byrd side i traded on Prestige ( Young something or others..original pressing) for two lps ...one of which was a Big John patton (Along came John as well) ...cannot remember what the other was but that was sealed and I think Reuben Wilson...bUT the BJP was a lovely surprise

As for Freddie ...I have to say my fave at the mo is the track googa mooga which gets more spins than anything

[WD45]

I had Good Move when it got reissued in the US, and I used to have Ike Quebec's Heavy Soul on LP.

I just can't hang with the man's B3 tone. That vibrato reminds me in a bad way of church/funeral homes. I like the harder, more percussive edge that other players dial in with the instrument.

[blajay]

Is George Braith related to any of those people involved in that movement?

My thought as well.

I do not know.

From the NCA New York article:

"AJAS produced its first jazz concert on December 24, 1956 at Small’s Paradise, with Lou Donaldson and the Bill English Quartet and a group of young budding jazz artists, George Braith, Bobby Capers, Vinnie McEwen, Oliver Beener, Pete LaRoca, Ray Draper and others."