Unissued BN session: Grant Green w/John Gilmore

[jasonguthartz]

Happen to come across this entry in an online Blue Note discography:

http://www.jazzdisco.org/bluenote/1963-dis/c/#640212

Grant Green Sextet

John Gilmore (ts) Bobby Hutcherson (vib) Duke Pearson (p) Grant Green (g) Butch Warren (b) Billy Higgins (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, February 12, 1964

1299 Untitled Grant Green Tune, No. 3 BN rejected

1300 Minor League -

1301 Grant's Tune -

1302 Un Poco Loco -

1303 Ezz-thetic

Damn. That Warren/Higgins combo is unbeatable (esp. with Sonny Clark), and with Gilmore as the only horn along with Hutcherson (who'd be making history on the "Out to Lunch" session less than two weeks later) -- I can't imagine this being a below-average session.

Q: Anyone know if the tapes still exist, or of plans to issue it?

Jason

[Rooster_Ties]

According to the complete BN discography (2001 edition, page 163), there were a total of five tunes recorded, as follows...

Untitled Grant Green Tune No.3

Minor League

Grant's Tune

Un Poco Loco

Ezz-thetic

All are listed as "rejected".

Surely if some of this material were worth being released, a tune or two would have seen the light of day as part of the "Lost Sessions" release a few years back, or in some other form over the years.

Looks great on paper, sure, and I'm all for asking Michael to revisit the tapes (paging Kevin!!). But I'm not holding my breath. It'd probably already be out by now, if it were worth releasing.

Edited March 22, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[WD45]

:drool:

[Big Wheel]

Cuscuna's general policy seems to be: if it was merely "unissued" he'll consider it. If it was "rejected" by Alfred Lion, he won't. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for this one.

Edit: Were this to be reissued, the best shot we might have would be getting it added onto the end of a reissue of "Solid." Three of the tunes appear on Solid, making me wonder if this was sort of a first attempt at those sessions that didn't work out.

Edited March 22, 2005 by Big Wheel

[Rooster_Ties]

Cuscuna's general policy seems to be: if it was merely "unissued" he'll consider it. If it was "rejected" by Alfred Lion, he won't.

I do think that sways his decision, but he's got ears too. If it was rejected, often there was a good reason. (though sometimes not.)

Chuck will chime in here in a minute, and say that we have no right to hear everything ever recorded, and that not every date is successful enough to release. And when he does, I'll probably agree with him.

That said, I'm all for Michael revisiting rejected dates (even dates he's already rejected himself), and reconsidering them with fresh ears. Maybe even getting some other ears to listen to them too (Bob Beldon, etc...) But some stuff we ain't never gonna hear, and there's usually a good reason for it.

Edited March 22, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[ghost of miles]

I've got a solution that will please all parties:

A Mosaic "Reject Select."

[Dan Gould]

Its true that Green's First Session was rejected originally and then put out after Cuscuna was prevailed upon to give it another listen ... but like Tom says, I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope. It seems likely this is one of those dates people will always wonder about, but if the guy's didn't have it that day, there's no reason it should be released, or even get all that much of a re-listening.

Your best bet to hear it would be to become the next generation's Michael Cuscuna, the guy who realizes his life's dream and gets access to the tape vault and control over the reissue program. But I don't think Michael's going anywhere anytime soon.

[Dave James]

I think I recall Michael referring to this session as a "plane wreck".

Up over and out.

[bertrand]

Eventually all this rejected stuff will be available digitally. The downside will be that there will be no more CDs proper from Blue Note.

Bertrand.

[Jazz Kat]

I would like to hear it. What Michael said was only his personal opinion.

[Dan Gould]

I would like to hear it. What Michael said was only his personal opinion.

Except that it is the only opinion that counts, cuz he's the one who's in charge of Blue Note reissues. And, his opinion happens to coincide with the opinion of the label's founder.

[Jazz Kat]

Yep, his opinion is what makes it get reissued, but I still might enjoy it if I heard it.

[robviti]

I would like to hear it. What Michael said was only his personal opinion.

as a highly regarded record producer, musical director, and the head of many jazz reissue programs for blue note, impulse!, and other labels, i regard michael's opinion as more than merely personal.

[Chuck Nessa]

I still might enjoy it if I heard it.

Is your pleasure the important factor here?

[Jazz Kat]

Excuse me for wanting to enjoy something...

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

I think I recall Michael referring to this session as a "plane wreck".

I bet that 'plane wreck' is better than Byrd's 'Street Lady' by an order of magnitude.

[Sundog]

Excuse me for wanting to enjoy something...

Why don't you buy Solid if you don't already have it. B-) Some of Grant's finest playing. He is really being pushed on this date and he responds to the challenge.

[.:.impossible]

I can't even imagine what this sounds like! Ezzthetic? Whoa.

[Jazz Kat]

Excuse me for wanting to enjoy something...

Why don't you buy Solid if you don't already have it. B-) Some of Grant's finest playing. He is really being pushed on this date and he responds to the challenge.

Will do, just with every other Green album I can get my hands on.

[bertrand]

You're still young - I guarantee you that somehow, by hook or by crook, you will hear this session in your lifetime.

Bertrand.

[Jazz Kat]

I can't wait!

And with that, I gotta get up at 6 tomorrow, I'm to bed.

[JSngry]

Frankly, I see as much potential for this session to be a bust as I do for it to be not so bad. That combination of personnel has "hmmmm, I dunno....." written all over it.

Everybody individually is fine, but together? Hmmmm, I dunno.....

[Rooster_Ties]

I hear what you're sayin' Jim, and looking again at the players, I think I'm with you on this one. Would certainly be one of the few dates Grand Green ever did with an "outside"-leaning player like Gilmore.

[Big Wheel]

My guess is that the execution of these tunes was not as tight as Alfred would have liked. Ezz-thetic is NOT easy to play, and I bet they may have needed more rehearsal time. Un Poco Loco is not particularly easy either, and is infrequently played. Alfred must have thought the concept was basically a good one, though, hence the redo at the "Solid" sessions a few months later. (Although Solid wasn't issued at the time either, I think most of us can agree the reason wasn't poor playing on the part of the participants...there was just too much Grant Green on the market at that point.)

[Big Wheel]

Another thought...perhaps Alfred was going for a remake of the tenor-vibes-guitar front line that worked so well on "Idle Moments," and either rejected the session as not matching up to the earlier effort or tossed it because he wanted to present Green in a more varied context than just copycatting the earlier lineup?