Braxton transcriptions

[Nate Dorward]

I was trying to write a piece on Braxton's recently reissued Charlie Parker Project album, which I find rather difficult because, while I kinda like it for its sheer loopiness, it's also a big fat mess. Sat down at the piano & transcribed bits & pieces of "Passport" & "Koko" to try to decide for myself whether Braxton knows what he's doing--slow going, & really a bit dispiriting. Among other things the musicians get lost in just about every track--e.g. on "Passport" Braxton loses track of where he is & adds an extra 16 bars to the tune (or omits 16 bars, depending on your perspective); "Koko" is a complete shambles, especially after Misha hits a wrong chord during the trading-16s that seems to completely confuse the band & they never recover. & then there's the problem that no-one seems to know how to lead back to the head without adding a bar or so. & Fonda, Misha & AkLaff seem to be on different pages half the time. & this is before even getting to the harmonic content, which frankly leaves me bewildered. Braxton doesn't "play changes" really, which I'm cool with, but I really don't know what to do with his habit of filling solos with endless unsteady strings of chromatic filler. When he happens upon a coherent motif it tends to collapse the moment he tries to expand on it (which suggests a player who's not really put in the hours of mindnumbing transposition exercises that are basic for most jazz musicians).

I don't know. I tend to have an affection for AB's highly idiosyncratic style almost independently of the context--& this is really the problem, that with standards performances it's virtually detachable from the context (it's rarely tied to the changes in any obvious way, beyond being more or less in B-flat for both tunes). But I was wondering if there were any more extensive attempts to transcribe or analyze Braxton out there, as I suspect any attempt to argue for the coherence of his playing would have to take in much longer stretches of his solos than I have the patience or time to transcribe. It's been a long while since I looked at the Heffley book--is there anything in there? (I remember it as largely reproducing Braxton's compositions not solos.) Or any other resources?

[Alexander Hawkins]

Nate – I was having a think about this, listening to the recent 23 Standards…In fairness, I haven’t heard the Charlie Parker Project yet – would love to, of course – but think it shows Braxton ‘playing the changes’ to pretty good advantage. If I find some time, I might transcribe a couple of things myself from this box (I particularly like ‘It’s a Raggy Waltz’ at the moment – great tune!). I think one thing which will make it a little tricky is his articulation, especially in longer flurries of even length notes, which is pretty unique. I guess from your own (and other) reviews of the Parker album that it’s a slightly different enterprise from the Standards box, so I don’t know if you find comparable issues in Braxton’s playing on the latter?

[Nate Dorward]

Red--I haven't actually heard the 23 Standards set--I'm just reluctant to spend the dough on such a large & expensive set when I'm not sure I'll be that taken with it. -- My impression from reviews of the 23 Standards set are that it's rather different in approach, in that the rhythm section basically plays "inside" behind Braxton; the Parker project on the other hand is pretty bent all round.

As it happens Dan Warburton (whose judgment I generally trust) isn't so hot on that reading of "It's a Raggy Waltz"--

http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/000592.html

[sheldonm]

darn.....I thought you were referring to Toni!!!

[Alexander Hawkins]

As it happens Dan Warburton (whose judgment I generally trust) isn't so hot on that reading of "It's a Raggy Waltz"--

http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/000592.html

Interesting...I guess that's in part what makes this stuff so fascinating.

I agree with him that 'I Can't Get Started' is great.

Back to the playing changes point, it's interesting to hear him negotiating charts like 'Giant Steps' and 'Countdown', on which it's harder just to run the scale of the home key. As well as playing interestingly (let's face it, the number of players who tediously runs patterns over those tunes is large!), he nevertheless pretty clearly outlines the harmony.

I think, though, that as you say, it's a different enterprise to the CP project. Which perhaps makes it interesting that he should occasionally sound suspect to you over the freer forms of the Charlie Parker set...I'm going to have to listen to it for myself!

[AllenLowe]

this is all very interesting to me and raises some larger philosphical questions - there is nothing theoretically wrong with taking tunes based on set changes and extendng them - how, I'm not always sure, however (though we can look to Miles's band as a model) - looking at the personnell on there, I know Joe Fonda can play changes - I've worked with him - but I tend to be skeptical about cause and effect -is the freedom principle the result of getting lost, or is getting lost the result of the freedom principle? I worked once with a very well-known new-music drummer who COULD NOT keep straight time, try as he might - and I tend to prefer the kind of musicians who really know how to bring it back and take it out - as these guys seem to be having trouble with on this (by the way that drummer had the same name as a famous American writer) - now ultimately the proof is in the result, no matter how they got there - I don't necessarily want to know if an abstract expressionist painter, for example, can do REALITY. But I'd like to hear someone like Larry Kart weigh in on this - Larry, you out there?

[sonic1]

I always thought Anthony Braxton's thing was to just play his thing despite the constraints, which is why on so many standards he DOES go over. Nate I know you know this already. Are you saying that he SOUNDS more lost than usual?

It is odd that they would put such poorly performed material in the "parker project" unless what is considered poorly performed was intentional. I will have to do a closer listen to this album-I have not really combed it at all. I will say that upon my listen I really was not drawn to playing it often (I may have played it twice, never paying too much attention to it), not because it was bad but just that there is so much other AB I would rather listen to.

I think his playing of standards is much like having a conversation with him. He is not going to necessarily stick to the subject or even answer your question, but what he does say is fascinating. Which makes him maybe a little eccentric and self-absorbed. But what a mind to be absorbed in!

Jared

PS doing transcriptions of Braxton would be totally frustrating/annoying and fascinating at the same time.

Edited February 24, 2005 by sonic1

[Nate Dorward]

It is odd that they would put such poorly performed material in the "parker project" unless what is considered poorly performed was intentional.

No, I wouldn't assume that just because something has been released, it's likely to be high-quality, free of mistakes, &c! Plenty of substandard product out there.

I wonder what Fonda made of the whole thing--in many ways he's forced into the role of trying to keep things from flying apart (picking up on when the others are out of sync, skipping ahead in the changes if one of the others gets lost, &c).

[alankin]

[Alexander Hawkins]

I think his playing of standards is much like having a conversation with him. He is not going to necessarily stick to the subject or even answer your question, but what he does say is fascinating. Which makes him maybe a little eccentric and self-absorbed. But what a mind to be absorbed in!

This is a really interesting way to think about it...And this:

I tend to be skeptical about cause and effect -is the freedom principle the result of getting lost, or is getting lost the result of the freedom principle?

is making me think too!