SACD of Monk's Music is Stereo!!!!

[Bluerein]

Hello all,

my Japanese 20 Bit Digital K2 reissue of Monk's Music has one track in strereo (the last alternate) the rest is straight mono (not so strange for a 1957 recording). But the new Fantasy SACD reissue is completely stereo! Was this also the case with the older OJC reissue? Or did they find the complete Stereo reel for the fisrt time. They sure didn't tell anybody about it if this is the case . The Gil Evans SACD was a first time stereo on SACD but there it was told to the customer.

Cheers,

Reinier

[J.A.W.]

Steve Hoffman posted some info about this on his forum, but I can't find the threads over there at the moment.

[Chuck Nessa]

The early OJC cd is stereo with two exceptions (Off Minor - take 4 and Crepuscule - take 6). The K2 reissue is mono excepting Crepuscule -takes 4 & 5 (a composite).

Edited October 11, 2004 by Chuck Nessa

[mikeweil]

Here is what Keepnews writes in the notes to the 1986 Riverside Monk box:

This was one of our very first stereo recordings (although the separate machine failed us on Crepuscule); confusingly, the monaural version has sometimes been used in reissues, but I have managed to include here in stereo form everything that is avaialble in that form.

I would have to listen to all tracks to identify mono or stereo - if I find the time I will do that tomorrow.

[mikeweil]

So here's a complete listing of the two sessions for the album Monk's Music in recording order as it was released on the Riverside box set, where everything available in stereo is issued in that format. I only listed the first issue. Mono takes are marked *.

Reeves Sound Studios, New York City, June 25, 1957

Engineer: Jack Higgins

Ray Copeland - trumpet; Gigi Gryce - alto sax; Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane - tenor sax; Thelonious Monk - piano; Wilbur Ware - bass; Art Blakey - drums. Monk does not play on track 3. The horns do not play on track 2.

1. Crepscule with Nellie (take 1) Riverside RCD 022-2

2. Crepscule with Nellie (breakdown) Riverside RCD 022-2

3. * Blues for tomorrow Riverside 12-243

same studio and personnel, June 26, 1957

Track 6 played by the horns only. Track 13 by Hawkins and rhythm only.

4. * Off Minor (take 4) - Jazzland (9)46

5. Off Minor (take 5) - Riverside 12-242 / 1102

6. Abide with me - Riverside 12-242 / 1102

7. Crepscule with Nellie (take 4/5) - Riverside RCD 022-2

8. * Crepscule with Nellie (take 6) - Riverside 12-242

9. * Epistrophy (fragment) - Jazzland (9)46

10. Epistrophy - Riverside 12-242 / 1102

11. Well You Needn't (opening) - Riverside RCD 022-2

12. Well You Needn't - Riverside 12-242 / 1102

13. Ruby, My Dear - Riverside 12-242 / 1102

Riverside 12-242 - Monk's Music (mono)

Riverside 1102 - Monk's Music (stereo)

Jazzland 46 - Thelonious Monk & John Coltrane (mono)

Jazzland 946 - Thelonious Monk & John Coltrane (stereo)

Riverside 12-243 - Blues for tomorrow (mono)

Riverside RCD 022-2 - The Complete Riverside Recordings

Edited October 12, 2004 by mikeweil

[Shrdlu]

Reinier, are you sure that "Crepuscule With Nellie" (which would be take 6) is stereo?

This mono/stereo business with this set of sessions (and the slightly later one with Gerry Mulligan) has come up many times.

Mike, that's a great list. By the way, "Off Minor", take 4, is stereo on the OJC CD, so it can be stricken off the list of items that only exist in mono. (It is mono in the box set, though. They missed that one, which is understandable when one is making such a large set and is knee-deep in tape boxes.)

[Bluerein]

Yes I'm sure the take 6 of Crepuscule With Nellie is MONO!!! That's the only track in Mono the rest is stereo (although the mono track of Crepuscule With Nellie is much better to listen to than the distant stereo composite).

Cheers,

Reinier

[mikeweil]

By the way, "Off Minor", take 4, is stereo on the OJC CD, so it can be stricken off the list of items that only exist in mono. (It is mono in the box set, though. They missed that one, which is understandable when one is making such a large set and is knee-deep in tape boxes.)

That would match Keepnews' recollection that the stereo machine failed during that one take of Crepuscule.

It still malfunctioned when they started Epistrophy, it seems, and they kept the fragmented or second choice take for Coltrane's solo.

[mikeweil]

Yes I'm sure the take 6 of Crepuscule With Nellie is MONO!!! That's the only track in Mono the rest is stereo (although the mono track of Crepuscule With Nellie is much better to listen to than the distant stereo composite).

Is the stereo spread that extreme on these issues? In the box set, it is okay - I generally like the way Jack Higgins spread the band between the extremes, and the room ambience sounds pretty natural on my equipment.

[Bluerein]

It's not that I don't like the stereo spread (which is indeed extreme) but on the composite stereo version the drums are barely audible while on the mono take 6 they are clear and crisp. The bass is also better defined on the mono take.

Cheers,

Reinier

[mikeweil]

I will re-listen for this - thanks for your observations.

[Claude]

I don't like the sound of the stereo tracks on the "Monk & Coltrane" SACD, which come from the same session. The K2 CD (also stereo) sounds better.

http://www.sa-cd.net/showreviews/1293#1203

[mikeweil]

The more room ambience you have in a recording the more distant the instrument sound. To me it seems like this is what you observed - the mono track sounds more direct. But Blakey plays a little different and louder on the last (mono) take. Hard to say whether it comes from the stereo/mono technique.

[Claude]

I just got the K2 CD (mono), and compared it to the stereo tracks in the Complete Riverside box (the cheapo ZYX).

The mono version sounds MUCH better than the stereo tapes, which are somehow experimental. Chuck explained in a another thread that the microphones used fro the stereo recording were suspended from the ceiling, while the mono recording used the classic microphone setup (close to the instruments).

The odd spatial effect (phasing problems?) on the stereo tracks are detracting in my view. The mono version has much more punch and detail, because it is recorded more closely. For me who only knew this session from the stereo tapes, it is a true revelation.

[Jim Dye]

So, is the US K2 of 'Monk's Music' in mono or are you talking about the japanese version? How about 'Monk & Coltrane'? I've always enjoyed the spaciousness of these sessions. That information about overhead mics being used for the stereo versions makes a lot of sense now.

[Claude]

I am referring to the US K2 CD, which is mono except for the two bonus tracks.