Bill Evans-Complete Village Vanguard 1961

[couw]

even more amusing is that the complete article can be found online here

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Hmmm - I find several things to disagree with in that article:

"the music he made was meditative and tuneful, between Suzuki and Snow White."

OK, I get the Snow White (Someday), but is there some Suzuki other than Shinichi Suzuki? Because he's the string education guy and it's absolutely stupid to use his name in this context. He's not some famous Japanese composer. Sounds like alliteration got the better of him.

As for the Schubert/Nat Cole thing - we can find many earlier examples of musicians fluent in jazz and classical music - Benny Goodman? Art Tatum?

Saying that Bill Evans "discovered" Scott LaFaro isn't accurate. I believe the credit goes to Tony Scott for introducing them.

Mike

[Stereojack]

Hmmm - I find several things to disagree with in that article:

"the music he made was meditative and tuneful, between Suzuki and Snow White."

OK, I get the Snow White (Someday), but is there some Suzuki other than Shinichi Suzuki? Because he's the string education guy and it's absolutely stupid to use his name in this context. He's not some famous Japanese composer. Sounds like alliteration got the better of him.

←

There is another Suzuki - D. T. Suzuki, a famous writer on Zen. Evans no doubt had read him.

Having read the whole article, I find it typical of jazz writing that appears in publications other than those devoted to music. Flowery, littered with fancy images and clever literary turns-of-phrase. This is a fan's celebration of a classic recording. The excerpt that everyone is reacting to is, to my observation, so obtuse as to have little or no meaning, and I find myself wondering (even after reading his many comments) just what in it that JSngry found so objectionable. Yes, this is a classic recording, but it is just one of many. I can't see where Charlie Parker or Bud Powell comes into it. Writers like to write, and sometimes they can get just a little caught up in their own cleverness.

As for emotion, remember that we bring emotion to the music. Musicians, regardless of what they may say they do, are just stringing notes together. The ones that are able to do it in imaginative and interesting ways are the ones that we celebrate, because of the emotions that they bring out in us, the listeners. Evans definiely stirs me up emotionally, but so do Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Merle Haggard and B. B. King.

[skeith]

And who the hell was that woman who is laughing so much during "I Loves You Porgy"? She certainly was a casual fan - noise is one thing, but that tune is so beautiful and sad, particularly if you know the words to the song.

Perhaps like the dancing woman at Newport, this one deserves a footnote in jazz history - but with my foot on her neck

[skeith]

even more amusing is that the complete article can be found online here

←

thanks couw for posting this

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Foot note - I get it. Now *there's* some imagery!

As for D. T. Suzuki - I'll have to wonder what his writing sounds like.

Jack - I totally agree about this kind of piece. This is what happens when people who don't know music write about music.

Mike

Edited September 21, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[medjuck]

And who the hell was that woman who is laughing so much during "I Loves You Porgy"?   She certainly was a casual fan - noise is one thing, but that tune is so beautiful and sad, particularly if you know the words to the song.

Perhaps like the dancing woman at Newport, this one deserves a footnote in jazz history - but with my foot on her neck

←

I just got this and have been listening to the first evening sets. The audience noise really bothers me. Reminds of why I don't like going to clubs. It's usually people who talk the most during the numbers who applaud the loudest at the end.

Was the audience that loud on the original releases? I haven't compared them yet. I hope the late evening set is quieter. Haven 't played it yet.

Edited September 21, 2005 by medjuck

[skeith]

Interesting Medjuck,

I find that the noise level of the crowds differs significantly on the different sets. Generally it does not bother me except for "Porgy" which is maybe the worst.

Interesting how much crowd discussion compared to today at the VV, where during most sets there is NO discussion at all.

One more thing, I actually find the crowd noise to be less prevalent in this box, than on other versions of the same recordings.

[medjuck]

20 2005, 08:33 PM]

I guess Jim you see Gopnik using "bebop" as to represent black music as opposed to the Evans band, which is white? Is that where you are coming from? Hence your initial reaction of racism.

←

I've known a lot of white musicians and fans who view Evans' "emotions" as "rarified", and those of bebop as "common". I'm not saying that Evans didn't bring a special perspective to his music, especially in the days of this trio. But I refuse to say that his perspective and the emotions involved in its expression were somehow at a "less common" level than those of any great artist.

←

Edited September 21, 2005 by medjuck

[JSngry]

20 2005, 08:33 PM]BTW are you suggesting that  to say that there are any white jazz musicians who may be  superior on their instrument is racist?

←

Uh, no...

[GregK]

Interesting Medjuck,

I find that the noise level of the crowds differs significantly on the different sets.  Generally it does not bother me except for "Porgy" which is maybe the worst.

Interesting how much crowd discussion compared to today at the VV, where during most sets there is NO discussion at all.

One more thing, I actually find the crowd noise to be less prevalent in this box, than on other versions of the same recordings.

←

I do too. Maybe I'm not listening as closely as others but I don't hear the crowd noise as obtrusive on this box. It doesn't seem to be that loud at all

[ghost of miles]

As for D. T. Suzuki - I'll have to wonder what his writing sounds like.

←

Like one hand clapping.

[ghost of miles]

Those interested in hearing this trio in transition (granted, they were only together two years, but that's a lifetime in certain great jazz groups) might want to check out the bootlegged 1960 Birdland recordings. The emotion/musicianship/whateveryawanna call it comes through a little less refined--and for that reason, I sometimes prefer those dates to the justly-celebrated Vanguard '61 albums.

Edited September 22, 2005 by ghost of miles

[medjuck]

(granted, they were only together two years, but that's a lifetime in certain great jazz groups)   

←

But in those two years they didn't play that many gigs. I'm under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that LaFaro played with Stan Getz almost as often as with Evans during the last year of his life. According to Keepnews liner notes LaFaro wasn't happy about Evan's drug addiction. Was Getz clean in those days?

[John Tapscott]

Edited September 22, 2005 by John Tapscott

[medjuck]

Am I nuts or have they changed the placement of the instruments in the stereo remix? I'm comparing it to the cd version with 10 cuts called "At the Village Vanguard" where the piano is in the center. In the 3 disc set the piano is on the right.

[skeith]

I don't have the "At the VV" cd you mentioned medjuck, but I am pleased with the placement of intstruments on the box.

[Ron S]

Just resuscitating this thread to share some information I just obtained about this set, in answer to a question that came up when the set first came out last year. I just spoke with Joe Tarantino, who is credited with the 2005 set's remastering, and he confirmed that this is, in fact, a new remastering, and not the 20-bit K2 remastering of the earlier Japanese box. I had suspected this after A-B'ing the new set with the 20-bit K2 versions of "Sunday At The Village Vanguard" and "Waltz For Debby". While there is much less tape hiss in the new set, the instruments have a more natural sound and greater presence than on the 20-bit K2s. Joe indicated that he thinks the remastering on the new set turned out very well, and I quite agree.

[mandrill]

Hmmm - I find several things to disagree with in that article:

"the music he made was meditative and tuneful, between Suzuki and Snow White."

OK, I get the Snow White (Someday), but is there some Suzuki other than Shinichi Suzuki? Because he's the string education guy and it's absolutely stupid to use his name in this context. He's not some famous Japanese composer. Sounds like alliteration got the better of him.

As for the Schubert/Nat Cole thing - we can find many earlier examples of musicians fluent in jazz and classical music - Benny Goodman? Art Tatum?

Saying that Bill Evans "discovered" Scott LaFaro isn't accurate. I believe the credit goes to Tony Scott for introducing them.

Mike

No, that was Damo Suzuki of Can. Same "rarified" emotions. Just listen to "Halleluwah" or "Soup".

[Late]

Just resuscitating this thread to share some information I just obtained about this set, in answer to a question that came up when the set first came out last year. I just spoke with Joe Tarantino, who is credited with the 2005 set's remastering, and he confirmed that this is, in fact, a new remastering, and not the 20-bit K2 remastering of the earlier Japanese box. I had suspected this after A-B'ing the new set with the 20-bit K2 versions of "Sunday At The Village Vanguard" and "Waltz For Debby". While there is much less tape hiss in the new set, the instruments have a more natural sound and greater presence than on the 20-bit K2s. Joe indicated that he thinks the remastering on the new set turned out very well, and I quite agree.

I agree, too. The sound on this set is exceptional — very natural without having that beefed up compression feel to it.

Ron, how did you end up talking to Tarantino? You didn't happen to ask him about any other (future) box sets did you?

[Ron S]

Just resuscitating this thread to share some information I just obtained about this set, in answer to a question that came up when the set first came out last year. I just spoke with Joe Tarantino, who is credited with the 2005 set's remastering, and he confirmed that this is, in fact, a new remastering, and not the 20-bit K2 remastering of the earlier Japanese box. I had suspected this after A-B'ing the new set with the 20-bit K2 versions of "Sunday At The Village Vanguard" and "Waltz For Debby". While there is much less tape hiss in the new set, the instruments have a more natural sound and greater presence than on the 20-bit K2s. Joe indicated that he thinks the remastering on the new set turned out very well, and I quite agree.

I agree, too. The sound on this set is exceptional — very natural without having that beefed up compression feel to it.

Ron, how did you end up talking to Tarantino? You didn't happen to ask him about any other (future) box sets did you?

I've spoken to him a few times over the last couple of years. I think I first spoke to him when I called Fantasy with a question about a weird sound glitch on a disc in one of the Art Tatum boxes. I was expecting to speak with a customer service rep, but instead was transferred to "one of the engineers," which turned out to be Joe. After I explained the issue to Joe, he actually listened to the recording himself, and called me back to confirm that the problem is on the master tape. He's always been very friendly and helpful. But, to answer your question, I have not asked him about future box sets. Maybe next time.

[etherbored]

joe's work on the new trane box is e x c e l l e n t.

again, the instruments sound more natural, warm, and musical than on any prior issue i've heard.

-e-

[GA Russell]

I still listen to all three discs of this set all the time. I appreciate the music much more than I did with previous tape and CD releases.

[Ron S]

With all the praise on this Board for remastering by RVG, Addey, 20-bit K2, etc., I really think that Tarantino and his Fantasy colleagues are--and have been since the '80s--the unsung heroes of remastering.

Edited November 9, 2006 by Ron S

[etherbored]

I still listen to all three discs of this set all the time. I appreciate the music much more than I did with previous tape and CD releases.

i second that, which is no mean feat considering the historical pertinence of the music...

-e-