king ubu Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I'm currently having my second listen to Art Farmer's "Art Worker", a live disc on Moon Records. Several things are pretty strange: Titles: Delphine Stars Erwägung Orientierung Eau Sovage (should this be "Sauvage"?) Gratuliere Ala Nova I know Farmer lived in Europe (Vienna?) for quite some time, but was he in Europe as far back as 1968 (that's the date given) AND giving his tunes such strange german titles? (Dolphins, Consideration, I Congratulate...) Then the applause on this "live recording": sound very dubbed in, to me. Then the the music: the first three tunes sound like Farmer alright. The fourth is a strange groove number (sounding like a Lou Donaldson tune, "The Scorpion"? I don't have that disc to check, but it sure sounds very familiar. Cheap ugly electric piano and maybe electric bass, too). Then tune #5 is absorbing freer sounds (octave trombone - by Jimmy Cleveland!?!). The musicians: Art Farmer (t, flh) Ernie Royal (t) Jimmy Cleveland (tb) Oscar Estelle (as, ts, bari) (never heard of him) Harold Wabern (sic!) (p, not listed on el p but playing one on #4) Jimmy Woode (b, unlisted on el b, but maybe playing it on #4) Roy McCurdy (d) Anyone has this disc? Anyone knows more about it? Is the personnel correct? Is there a more exact date, and maybe a place of recording? What's up with the tunes? Are they really titled as I listed them? By the way, just finished another listen to #4 - the tune's faded while the applause begins - this sreams BAD EDIT! However strange this whole disc might be - the rather traditional tunes (#1-4 and 6-7) are very fine. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 (edited) The personnel reads similar to Farmer's first session as a leader for Prestige on July 2, 1953: Art Farmer tp Jimmy Cleveland tb Oscar Estelle as, bs Clifford Solomon ts Quincy Jones p, arr Monk Montgomery el-b Sonny Johnson d Work of Art 5:46 The little bandmaster 4:06 Mau Mau 5:15 Up in Quincy's Room 4:00 (only four titles recorded) ... or the next session for Prestige on June 7, 1954: Art Farmer tp Jimmy Cleveland tb Charlie Rouse ts Danny Bank bs Horace Silver p Percy Heath b Arthur Taylor d Wildwood 2:55 Evening in Paris 2:41 Elephant Walk 3:25 Tiajuana 4:52 That CD smells so much like a bootleg it's hard to endure ..... are there any composer credits? (Not that I tend to believe them) Edited March 3, 2004 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloe Omoe Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I've been trying to discover the truth behind this record for a long time, since it first came out in the '80s on a Lotus LP. According to the composers' credits - and to a small bit of research on my side - I think that the following musicians are featured: Art Farmer (?), trumpet, or Dusko Gojkovic, trumpet Robert Politzer, trumpet Erich Kleinschuster, trombone Hans Solomon, alto sax, tenor sax, bass clarinet Fritz Pauer, piano, electric piano Erich Bachtragl, drums The identity of the bass player is a little more difficult. It could be Jimmy Woode, of course, who lived in Vienna then; it could be Peter Marshall, who played with all those musicians at that time, it could be Rudolf Hansen. I have the feeling that Farmer is not on this record, and that the main trumpet soloist could be Gojkovic I think that the recording took place in Vienna; 1969? 1970? 1972? Take all the above as a fist step in working out this mystery... Best, Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Sounds plausible - Pauer used names like this for his pieces, I will look this up later. I find the personnel with Cleveland etc. very improbable for a 1968 European date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Thanks, Luca! Sounds good to me, too! Will have another listen. I don't know Gojkovic that well, so I could not identify him, for sure, but your list makes sense. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloe Omoe Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 There's another possibility I dug out while browsing a Carmell Jones page: "On January 9, 1969 Carmell Jones played at Vienna´s Austrophon Studio with the ERICH KLEINSCHUSTER SEXTET: ROBERT POLITZER (tp, fl-h), ERICH KLEINSCHUSTER (tb), HANS SALOMON (as, ts, b-cl), FRITZ PAUER (p), JIMMY WOODE (B) and ERIC BACHTRÄGL (dr), the show was broadcasted by ORF radio." The mystery goes on... best, Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 (edited) Could it be the same session as 'Erich Kleinschuster - Oberwater Messe' released on German Columbia LP C067-33036 and I think recorded in 1970? This disk has both Farmer and Pauer on it. Edited March 3, 2004 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloe Omoe Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Could it be the same session as 'Erich Kleinschuster - Oberwater Messe' released on German Columbia LP C067-33036 and I think recorded in 1970? This disk has both Farmer and Pauer on it. I had thought about that, but I have never seen that LP. The Farmer disc, however, does not sound too much "ecclesiastical", as the titles of the Kleinschuster "Mass" would suggest: "Introitus", "Gloria", "Alleluja", and so on. Best, Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) I just listened to an illegitimate copy of the Moon album. I was thinking that I should try to find the real source, but I realize that may prove difficult after a glance at this thread. I'm also uncertain Art Farmer is even present at the session, since the trumpet soloist does not exactly sound like him. The dubbed-in applause (quite evindently from a poorly recorded pre-war concert) is not even faded in, but created by someone lazily starting a reel-to-reel tape, or even an LP, during the final chord of each tune. [Edit for syntax] Edited February 22, 2011 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 The mistery continues... I'll have to spin that disc again, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) How about these two sessions? 1970 January 15, Austrophon Studio, Vienna DUSKO GOJKOVIC & THE ERICH KLEINSCHUSTER SEXTET Dusko Gojkovic, Robert Politzer (tp), Erich Kleinschuster (tb), Hans Salomon (ts,bcl), Fritz Pauer (p,elp), Jimmy Woode (b), Erich Bachtraegl (dr) 1. MADISON WALK 4:34 2. OLD FISHERMAN'S DAUGHTER 5:46 3. IT'S ABOUT TIME 5:45 4. NIGHTS IN SKOPLJE 5:16 5. TELL IT LIKE IT IS 5:27 6. SEGA SE KARAME 7:27 1969 December 2, Vienna, (Austrophon-Studio) DUSKO GOJKOVIC & ERICH KLEINSCHUSTER SEXTET: Dusko Gojkovic (flh), Robert Politzer (tp,flh), Hans Salomon (as,ts,bcl), Fritz Pauer (p,elp), Jimmy Woode (b), Erich Bachtraegl (dr), Fritz Ozmec (perc) 1. FORMEL (Kleinschuster) - 7:30 2. A DREAM REALIZED (Pauer) - 5:32 3. GUESS, I'LL HANG MY TEARS OUT TO DRY (Cahn-Styne) - 4:45 4. BOSSA FOR PAVEL (Salomon) - 3:26 5. MOUSTACHE (Salomon) - 2:36 6. RHYTHM ROCKET (Kleinschuster) - 2:38 They are listed among "Unreleased recordings" at Dusko Gojkovic's web site. The track timings do not match any of the tracks on "Art Worker", but that doesn't necessarily mean anything when it comes to unreleased and bootleg recordings I guess. The 1969 session is listed as the Gojkovic & Kleinschuster Sextet, but lists seven people, none of which is Kleinschuster. The instrumentation on "Art Worker" seems to consist of either trumpet/trombone/alto sax, trumpet/trombone/tenor sax, or on one or two tracks possibly two trumpets/trombone/unidentified saxophone. The timings for "Art Worker" is: Delphine (4:23) Stars (4:13) Erwägung (4:39) Orientierung (4:02) Eau Sovage (5:00) Gratuliere (4:31) Ala Nova (4:36) Edited February 22, 2005 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 How are the writing credits distributed on the Moon release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Could it be the same session as 'Erich Kleinschuster - Oberwater Messe' released on German Columbia LP C067-33036 and I think recorded in 1970? This disk has both Farmer and Pauer on it. This LP is now being offered at eBay.de ( link ) and from the scans it appears that there's a chorus present, which would count that one out (Pauer is also listed as playing only electric piano). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 bringing this up because of Daniel's thread... a guy from Graz whom I got to "know" via dime a bit has helped solving the mystery... also he sent me the "Art Worker" entry for his (unpublished, I assume) Pauer discography, which reads as follows: Art Farmer (flh), Robert Politzer (tp), Erich Kleinschuster (tb), Hans Salomon (as,ts), Fritz Pauer (p,elp), Jimmy Woode (b), Erich Bachträgl (dr) ORF-Studios, Vienna, March 19, 1968 DELPHINE Moon MPL 014-1, MCD 014-2 STARS - - ERWÄGUNG - - ORIENTIERUNG - - EAU SAUVAGE - - GRATULIERE - - A LA NOVA - - Note: This record was issued as by Art Farmer and entitled “Art worker”; the personnel given on the cover is not correct. I don't think we'll get much closer to the truth than this... this might even be THE truth in this case. I trust this guy - he's been around for decades, living in an Austrian town and being in touch with ORF guys and music teachers there (which include a few jazz luminaries... still some great teachers there, such as Wayne Darling, Ed Partyka, Karlheinz Miklin, Howard Curtis, Renato Chicco, Dena De Rose and Jim Rotondi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 This would also be the right place to post that the tune "A la Nova" is composed by Robert Politzer, according to what I've learned from onetime Organissimo poster Eloe Omoe who got this confirmed somewhere (not on the cover of the Moon album, that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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