porcy62 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 This morning my wife told me: Why don't you use a data base for you collection? I thought it's a good idea. Is anybody out there using a DB? I use MacOS, not Windows. Quote
Claude Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I can't help you with MacOS software recommendations, just a general advice: try to find a software (or database with a macro add-on) that can get CD titles from the online databases CDDB or FreeDB. It makes the creation of a CD database so much easier, because no data entry is required. I use WhereIsIt (Windows only), for audio and data CDs. It not only gets CD titles from FreeDB, but also scans the tags of MP3s, created image thumbnails and so on. No LP support yet Quote
BeBop Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 3" by 5" cards. I started with them 35 years ago (one per artist, with all sideman or leader appearances listed) and still use them today. Since I don't buy anymore recorded music, maintenance isn't an issue. Portability, however, is poor. Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) I have very little faith in the CDDB kinds of things. Recently I've seen how bad the data is. The Windows XP Media Player checks some kind of database when you play a CD on the computer and so much of the information is completely wrong - missing tracks, switched tracks, etc. A lot of older things have problems - but even the brand new BN Connoisseurs do too. Maybe other users aren't as picky or aren't using as much of the details - but wouldn't you want tune titles in your database, not just album titles? And how about personnel and other things? That's where the data entry work comes in. It's a breeze to type in the leader and album name only. My preference is to enter information in standard discographical format into Steve Albin's BRIAN database program (download for free - works on Mac and Windows). This program has an XML export/import feature so users can exchange data. As I mentioned elsewhere here, I have entered huge amounts of information that I would be willing to make available to other BRIAN users (over 30 Mosaic sets, for example). That would cut down on the data entry. And the data included would be much more comprehensive and accurate than what CDDB or even standard discographies include. Wouldn't it be nice to have a bunch of people each doing a little data entry than everyone reinventing the same wheel? Wouldn't it be nice to have something maintained by people who care about accuracy, as opposed to the dreaded allmusic disaster area? Here's a list of boxed sets (and the like) already entered: http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/boxedsets.htm You could produce standard session listings or if you prefer to see issue contents, just run an issue index report. Tunes or sidemen indices are available too. Mike Edit to add the "h" in discography - link works now. Edited October 30, 2004 by Michael Fitzgerald Quote
J.A.W. Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) Michael, The link doesn't work. Edit: yep, it does now. Edited October 30, 2004 by J.A.W. Quote
porcy62 Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Posted October 30, 2004 Wouldn't it be nice to have a bunch of people each doing a little data entry than everyone reinventing the same wheel? Wouldn't it be nice to have something maintained by people who care about accuracy, as opposed to the dreaded allmusic disaster area? It would be great, but probably too much work for a lazy guy like me. I am thinking at my rock'n roll lps too, in a session based DB it would be difficult to define a recording date for sessions who lasted months like "Sergeant Pepper's" or "Ummagumma", I should use the album realise instead. Anyway I will download BRIAN one of these days (It sounds like a Monthy Phyton's software) Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 Yes, the BRIAN program is designed specifically for jazz. Even outside of the rock worlds where it's commonplace, it's difficult to get the complete session info for sessions not done in the "live" way. If one could get hold of the session information (a la the Marc Lewisohn Beatles sessions book), the program could handle it, but how ya gonna get the info? It's hard enough to get date specifics for jazz sessions spread across two days. I suppose you could enter rock stuff into one session per album with a note saying so. Mike Quote
Claude Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) I find the FreeDB data to be quite reliable. Most programs now use FreeDB, since CDDB access is not free anymore. I regularly have to enter data myself, with the newest releases. About 1 out of 5 jazz CDs I buy is not yet in the database. For classical music, both databases are useless, because the artist/title scheme is not well suited. Composer and artist are ofter interchanged. Anyway, if I had to enter data for my 2000 CDs manually, I would never had started making a list. In Whereisit, I export the data to a simple text list that I can email or copy to my PDA. Edited October 30, 2004 by Claude Quote
Jim R Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I agree with Mike regarding the dubious nature of automatically transferring data from online sources. I'm on a Mac, and I've been using Claris Filemaker Pro since 1992. The initial data entry took me a bit over a month, and since then it's been easy to keep it updated by adding data every time I add to my collection. Some would find it tedious, but I don't. It's actually a lot of fun once you get it set up the way you want, and you can start customizing different layouts, creating new fields for various purposes, etc. It's extremely flexible in terms of allowing for creativity in layout design and options for setting up different types of fields (when I was into LP's, I used to have an LP database file where I kept prices and values, and could generate lists for total cost/total value; and auction/set sale lists). Searching and sorting using multiple criteria (which can be prioritized) is a breeze, and has come in very handy on many occasions. About the only regret I have is that I didn't start out from the beginning by including composer credits. Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I suppose my Windows Media Player accesses the FreeDB database then? Gotta strongly disagree about the accuracy. It would be a monumental task to list all the problems I've found. The latest Horace Silver BN comes to mind (completely screwed up); also just this morning Chick Corea Song Of Singing CD (last two tracks listed as "unknown"); as I recall, Art Blakey Jazz Corner Of The World, too - a few that I remember among hundreds of Blue Notes that I've looked at in the past month or so. I could never rely on something that flawed. If the dreaded allmusic site uses something like FreeDB to do their "data entry" it explains a lot. Doesn't make it right, just explains it. Mike Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 Yes, I agree with Jim about the benefits. Composers are particularly wonderful to check. My BRIAN database has over 5600 composers as of now and I can instantly see all the works by a particular one. Over 20,000 songs - with composers, so you can tell the difference between Lonely Woman by Ornette, by Horace, and by Benny Carter. Mike Quote
alankin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I've been using an Excel file to keep track of my collection. I tried to use the Brian program once, but didn't have time to learn it well enough to use. It seemed to a lot of info entered to get started... Quote
Claude Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I think the big companies have licensed CDDB access. Windows Media Player and Winamp use CDDB, whereas most shareware players and CD rippers use FreeDB. Both databases are updated by users, so errors cannot be avoided. All in all they are a great help for daily use, but probably not for discographical purposes which need a higher accuracy. To make entering CD data easier and avoid typos, I usually try to copy/paste the track names from a website (label or store), and I check the data with the booklet info before submitting them to FreeDB. For 2 discs of the latest Connoisseur batch, I used the Blue Note website. The Horace Silver info are not from me, I swear (I don't have the CD) Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I don't know when you tried it, but there is now sample data available that would solve much of the "start-up" slowness. For example, you'd never need to create a tune by Monk - they're all entered already. Same for sidemen - anyone who appears on any of the sets I listed (or who appears in any of my online discographies) would never have to be created. If you start from "scratch" - yes, absolutely there would be a big lag to get all the labels (1000+), songs (20K+), composers (5K+), personnel (9K+) entered. This is what I mean about avoiding reinventing the wheel. If another BRIAN user wants a session, I export it, email it and when that user imports the session, any new composers, songs, personnel, etc. get created in his database instantly. There are precautions to avoid duplication when he's got Ken McIntyre and I've got Makanda Ken McIntyre. I do still have to enter new compositions (almost never standards or jazz standards), but I just think that once I do that, I'll always have that in the database. Mike Quote
alankin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I don't know when you tried it, but there is now sample data available that would solve much of the "start-up" slowness. For example, you'd never need to create a tune by Monk - they're all entered already. Same for sidemen - anyone who appears on any of the sets I listed (or who appears in any of my online discographies) would never have to be created. If you start from "scratch" - yes, absolutely there would be a big lag to get all the labels (1000+), songs (20K+), composers (5K+), personnel (9K+) entered. This is what I mean about avoiding reinventing the wheel. If another BRIAN user wants a session, I export it, email it and when that user imports the session, any new composers, songs, personnel, etc. get created in his database instantly. There are precautions to avoid duplication when he's got Ken McIntyre and I've got Makanda Ken McIntyre. ... That's good to hear. I tried it at least a year ago, so maybe I'll give it another look... Quote
MartyJazz Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 3" by 5" cards. I started with them 35 years ago (one per artist, with all sideman or leader appearances listed) and still use them today. Since I don't buy anymore recorded music, maintenance isn't an issue. Portability, however, is poor. And that system can't do what a computerized database can. For example, my old DOS database application, Alpha 4, enables me to seach my CD collection by tune, e.g., all the versions of "'Round Midnight"; by artist, e.g., all issues in which Kenny Dorham appears as a leader or a sideman; and by a combination of fields, e.g., Blue Note sessions recorded in the studio between 1952 and 1960 in which the leader is a trumpeter. Every time I acquire a CD, I add the relevant data to this database, so it's no longer a chore to do. Having collected LPs however from the early '60s, most of those are on 3X5 cards which I hardly ever look at. If only I had the time (and inclination) to transfer that data to the PC. Quote
porcy62 Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Posted October 30, 2004 Having collected LPs however from the early '60s, most of those are on 3X5 cards which I hardly ever look at. If only I had the time (and inclination) to transfer that data to the PC. That's what I mean. Starting now a serious DB would be a full time job, a part the BRIAN discographies. I have too many lps, from africans to Lou Reed. Maybe when I will retired. B-) Quote
BeBop Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 I'd be the first to admit to the limitations of the 3" by 5" card. They were, of course, virtually the only option 35-plus years ago. They do, however, have two advantages. First, they are non-volatile. Well, I suppose there's fire. (the flip-side, is that they can't be backed up.) Second, I've got information on recordings from 10" disc, LP, 78, 8-track, cassette, unissued stuff... Clearly, if I had it to do over again... In terms of converting to digital media, think 10,000 LPs- and CDs-worth of stuff. Quote
J Larsen Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 If you have a rainy afternoon to kill, Access or Excel would be good ways to go. I've been thinking of writing my own program, but that project is very low on a very long list of priorities. Quote
7/4 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 If you have a rainy afternoon to kill, Access or Excel would be good ways to go. I've been thinking of writing my own program, but that project is very low on a very long list of priorities. I had my collection in Access for a couple of years, didn't like it. Set it up again in SmartWare where I started it in 1986. Quote
J Larsen Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 Access can be a little thick, but I really like its flexibility. I can understand someone finding it to be overkill for a music DB, though. Quote
MartyJazz Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) If you have a rainy afternoon to kill, Access or Excel would be good ways to go. I've been thinking of writing my own program, but that project is very low on a very long list of priorities. I had my collection in Access for a couple of years, didn't like it. Set it up again in SmartWare where I started it in 1986. While Excel is useful as a database for very limited projects, e.g., bills, it is a spreadsheet program and as such, falls very short if one wishes to put together a highly functional jazz CD/LP database. For example, if you want to list sidemen and/or tunes as I do for each CD or LP, a spreadsheet program just doesn't do the trick. Edited October 30, 2004 by MartyJazz Quote
J Larsen Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) If you have a rainy afternoon to kill, Access or Excel would be good ways to go. I've been thinking of writing my own program, but that project is very low on a very long list of priorities. I had my collection in Access for a couple of years, didn't like it. Set it up again in SmartWare where I started it in 1986. While Excel is useful as a database for very limited projects, e.g., bills, it is a spreadsheet program and as such, falls very short if one wishes to put together a highly functional jazz CD/LP database. For example, if you want to list sidemen and/or tunes as I do for each CD or LP, a spreadsheet program just doesn't do the trick. Are you familiar with the Vlookup function? That, coupled with a well-thought out ID numbering system helps Excel simulate many of the features of a proper database program like Access. I think we would agree that Access is a better tool for the job, but I can understand someone finding it a bit thick. Edited October 30, 2004 by J Larsen Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 30, 2004 Report Posted October 30, 2004 All this crap depends on 'what you want'. If you only need a list of the recordings in your inventory with sidemen, tune titles, track timings, etc; one of the commercial programs will suffice. I'm locked into CD Trustee since my daughter gave it as a Christmas gift a few years ago. I understand another program may be superior but it works for me. I have any number of discographies to sort out the details. It uses the CDDB database and despite the flaws, it saves a bunch of time and key strokes. I always enter corrections from the disc and additional material. My main reason for any sort of database is to have a reliable list of my collection so I can make intelligent purchase choices and for the insurance man. Quote
Alec Posted October 31, 2004 Report Posted October 31, 2004 I use Music Collector and I'm a big fan. For me it does just what I want it to. That you can use a bar code reader (I use an old CueCat) made it much easier to first enter my over 3,000 titles. It can search CDDB, Amazon (US, JP, DE), All Music Guide, plus a few others. It's not perfect, but, as I said, it works for me. Follow this link and you can try it for free. Music Collector home page Quote
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