Jackie McLean "One Step Beyond" RVG

[whiskeycat]

Hi Everyone,

I've seen some discussion about this in another post and decided that it should have it's own thread. Also, I just spoke on the phone with some folks at Blue Note & Mosaic and they may post updated information on this Organissimo forum. They are very aware of the forum (and most importantly - the mistake!) and I suggested they post some replacement/refund info here. So, I just thought it also might make it easier for them to find if it, if it was it's own break out thread.

I've never actually posted anything to this forum before, but am a big fan and read it daily. It's a shame that my first post has to be about something negative, but I wanted to just offer my 2 cents on the "One Step Beyond" RVG error, since I just purchased it last week and listened to it for the first time last night. I should also note that this is the first time I've EVER heard this album, so it was especially disappointing that there are problems with this disc. I've wanted this remaster for quite a long time.

The first thing I noticed is that it is not simply an error in which track 2 was accidentally inserted during "Saturday and Sunday." Once that song ends, there is the usual 5 second countdown (silence) and then before "Frankenstein" comes on...there is approximately 55 seconds or so of either the original or bonus take of "Saturday and Sunday" (I'm not sure which). Once that 55 seconds of music ends, there is a little silence and then "Frankenstein" begins.

It's not the end of the world, but it is frustrating. I also agree with some others that something seems strange with the sound quality. It's not quite as sharp and clear as other RVG remasters. Bobby Hutcherson's vibes sound so low and muddy on the opening track. It just doesn't seem up to their usual standards.

I actually called Blue Note this morning and they had a hard time transferring me to anyone! They weren't sure who handles this kind of thing. I (sort of jokingly) asked for Michael Cuscuna and they attempted to transfer me to him! Alas, I did not get to speak with him. But they gave me another number and it ended up being Mosaic Records. I spoke with a nice man whose name I can't remember. He told me that the problem has been reported and they are working on it. He could offer no info on how the refund / replacement will work. He seemed confident that they would be fixing this, but couldn't tell me how the "next version" will be indicated or what we can expect.

Lastly, I mentioned that certain "message boards" and internet chatter was happening with this. He directly mentioned the organissimo forum. I told him, since he knows this forum, if they could please post some information on how we can exchange our discs for new ones or what the situation is, that would be helpful. He thought that was a good idea.

OK, Blue Note -- You're up! Please let us know what's going on.

Thanks for reading this and keep up the good posts and such. I have a blast reading you at work (ooops...I mean at home!) every day.

[WD45]

They are just having a bugger of a time with this title, aren't they?

[jazzbo]

Thanks for posting. Please join in the discussions (or arguments, or drive by slayings, whatever they are!)

[Rosco]

Wait, they screwed up the RVG as well?

I have the 1987 McMastrer ReMaster, where the final 15 seconds of the master of 'Saturday and Sunday' are banded separately (at the beginning of the alternate). The final 54 seconds of the alternate are then banded at the beginning of 'Frankenstein'.

I have since bought the Grachan Moncur Mosaic Select, which includes the album banded correctly (and in good sound), so I passed on the RVG (thankfully, if it sounds as bad as you say). I take it the alternate is at the end of the RVG, rather than following on from the master, as on the McMaster?

How can they get it wrong a second time? Don't they listen to their own CDs?

[whiskeycat]

Wait, they screwed up the RVG as well?

I have the 1987 McMastrer ReMaster, where the final 15 seconds of the master of 'Saturday and Sunday' are banded separately (at the beginning of the alternate). The final 54 seconds of the alternate are then banded at the beginning of 'Frankenstein'.

I have since bought the Grachan Moncur Mosaic Select, which includes the album banded correctly (and in good sound), so I passed on the RVG (thankfully, if it sounds as bad as you say). I take it the alternate is at the end of the RVG, rather than following on from the master, as on the McMaster?

How can they get it wrong a second time? Don't they listen to their own CDs?

Yup, they definitely screwed up the brand new RVG as well. Pretty amazing, isn't it? The issue you mentioned with the 1987 remaster - "the final 54 seconds of the alternate are then banded at the beginning of Frankenstein" - seems to be EXACTLY what has happened again with the new RVG.

I could start to wonder about BN not even really rematering this and just taking the 1987 version and tweaking things around (such as the alternate track being at the end of the disc), but I don't want to assume anything. The sounds quality leaves something to be desired and I wouldn't be shocked if this was the same as the '87 version, but I have no idea.

All I do know is that someone got this very, very wrong. Of all the remastered titles, this was always one that people seemed to be BEGGING for. After all this time, it comes out with a mistake. Really a shame...

[WorldB3]

Thanks for the info, keep posting and welcome.

As for the new One Step Beyond RVG the sequence of the first two songs doesn't bother me as much as the thought that they may have just taken the McMaster version and cranked up the volume. I would have to the hear the tracks on the Mosaic to compare.

[Guest youmustbe]

I heard this band live at Town Hall but with Clifford Jarvis on drums. Kinda ruined listening to the record for me, even though it's a great record. Jackie could do no wrong in those days for me. And to think he didn't have his cabaret card and couldn't play clubs!

[Al in NYC]

How totally infuriating. It's not like this was some sort of secret or unknown error. People have been calling for a correction of this title for over 20 years for just this reason!! I know CD sales are in a death spiral, but the folks at Blue Note can't be bothered to spend an hour or so to clear this up? Even after they already did it for the Mosaic? Does anyone listen to the damn music? Is ANYONE paying attention over there?

Of course this also makes it clear what I've been saying for a few years about these purported "RVG" reissues. That they sound an awful lot like to old McMaster remasterings with perhaps a couple of knobs tweaked and the levels definitely turned way up. That good ol' Rudy probably never touched them. I've had some arguments about this with wishful thinking friends of mine, but I guess the cat is well and truly out of that bag now.

[jazzbo]

Al you may be saying it and hearing it. . . but I don't. I've bought every RVG and I've compared many to the McMaster editions and they don't sound like the same transfers to me at all. They seem fundamentally different than just eq'd "knob tweaked" same transfers. I know a little bit about recording, did some of my own, I'm not an expert but I don't agree with your hypothesis.

This is unfortunate this error, agreed. They'll fix it, and replace it at no cost to the customer, I believe that. I actually like the sound of this version, and I have other versions to listen to until they get it right.

[whiskeycat]

I just finished listening to the new RVG edition again. There is actually another error in the mastering that I didn't notice the first time. The sound briefly fades down and then back up during "Blue Rondo." HEY BLUE NOTE: if you're out there and reading this...please fix that too!

With all this griping about the errors on the disc, I feel bad that I haven't talked about the music at all. It's really incredible and it all comes together for me on "Ghost Town". That's an amazing piece of music. Makes me want to buy the new Grachan Moncur III remasters. Well...can someone else be brave this time? Buy those discs and let me know if there are any errors on there!!!

But, wow... with all the talk about the sound quality being poor, the sound on "Ghost Town" is AMAZING. I feel like maybe that song got the usual RVG treatment and the rest didn't make it to this disc? Cause this is so crystal clear. The vibes ring out beautifully and Tony Williams is so close, you can hear his drum pedal squeak at one point. Great stuff.

Now that I'm in love with this album, I'm only fired up about getting after Blue Note to hook me up with a nice copy! I want to have a perfect copy to enjoy forever. Is that asking too much?

[bertrand]

There is a volume drop on 'Blue Rondo' on the McMaster as well - I have a McMaster where the tracks were separated correctly. I suspect the 'Blue Rondo' thing is in the tape.

Bertrand.

[David Ayers]

Is the Blue Rondo drop-out in the Mosaic Select?

[Rosco]

Is the Blue Rondo drop-out in the Mosaic Select?

I just took a listen to both the 1987 McMaster and the Mosaic Select.

If the drop-out is the one at about 4'09, just before the horns re-enter for the closing head, then it is not present in the Select. There is a kind of a glitch at around that point, which may be inherent in the original tapes, but it does not fade like the '87 does.

Looking at the booklet for the Select, McMaster was also responsible for the transfer there, although it is presumably a fresh crack at it, as the sound is signigicantly fuller and punchier than the '87.

[David Ayers]

Is the Blue Rondo drop-out in the Mosaic Select?

I just took a listen to both the 1987 McMaster and the Mosaic Select.

If the drop-out is the one at about 4'09, just before the horns re-enter for the closing head, then it is not present in the Select. There is a kind of a glitch at around that point, which may be inherent in the original tapes, but it does not fade like the '87 does.

Looking at the booklet for the Select, McMaster was also responsible for the transfer there, although it is presumably a fresh crack at it, as the sound is signigicantly fuller and punchier than the '87.

Thanks for checking.

[whiskeycat]

Has anyone had an experience like this with Blue Note before? If so, how did it work itself out?

I'm just wondering what the process will be for a return/exchange. I'm hoping that I can just send in my copy and get a replacement disc, but I'm not sure about that or where they will post information on how to get this done. The gentleman I spoke with on the phone yesterday did like my idea of Blue Note posting updated info to this forum, but who knows if they will actually do that.

I would really prefer to not return my CD to where I purchased it. The thing that worries me about this most is if Blue Note fixes the problem, but doesn't indicate that this is "Version 2" or something on the back of the CD tray. If that was the case, I wouldn't know if the one I'm buying is another early copy with the error or not. You can imagine how upset I would be if I got the same disc again. I basically couldn't take a chance unless I knew 100% that this was the fixed "One Step Beyond".

The point is that I didn't really feel a whole lot better when I called Blue Note. The receptionist (who answered "Hello, EMI") didn't have any idea what department to transfer me to. I guess they don't get a lot of complaints or mistakes on their CD's?

Also, not that the receptionist needs to be a huge jazz fan or anything, but you would think that could may be helpful at times. When the lady asked me what the problem was and I explained that there was an issue with the new Jackie McLean RVG remaster -- her initial response was "Ohhh...is she on Blue Note...let me look her up". Ouch!

[RDK]

You shoulda told her he was Norah Jones' father!

[jazzbo]

The last time I remember a similar glitch was on the Dialog RVG. If I remember correctly, one emailed a request for a replacement cd, the disc was mailed to you. I know that I never returned actual product because recently I discovered I still have the disc with the glitch, and the replacement disc.

It will be okay. Just give it a little time. Like two months. You'll have a clear idea what to do in that time frame I bet.

[whiskeycat]

The last time I remember a similar glitch was on the Dialog RVG. If I remember correctly, one emailed a request for a replacement cd, the disc was mailed to you. I know that I never returned actual product because recently I discovered I still have the disc with the glitch, and the replacement disc.

It will be okay. Just give it a little time. Like two months. You'll have a clear idea what to do in that time frame I bet.

Thanks so much for the info, Jazzbo. If anyone happens to hear anything more about this, please let us know! I'm sure it will all be resolved and I'll be a happy guy soon enough.

Just out of curiosity....what exactly was wrong with the "Dialogue" RVG? Once this was corrected, was there any way of distinguishing a correct version vs. the glitch version in a record store?

[AndrewHill]

The last time I remember a similar glitch was on the Dialog RVG. If I remember correctly, one emailed a request for a replacement cd, the disc was mailed to you. I know that I never returned actual product because recently I discovered I still have the disc with the glitch, and the replacement disc.

Yeah, I gave that glitched disk away to a friend who didn't own the cd.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

glad i have the JRVG of this!

[clifford_thornton]

Glad I have the Liberty stereo LP!

[jazzbo]

There was a really bad dropout on one track of Dialog I believe. No, there's no real way that I know to tell of a corrected or flawed copy, but my guess is there's probably not many flawed copies out there.

[David Ayers]

By the way, it isn't only the CD which has this error. Downloads (amazon, itunes) seem to have the wrong track times too. Why hasn't it been withdrawn from sale both as download and CD? Ever tried getting a refund for a faulty download?

I also noticed that UK and US amazon had a different running order for the tracks, and that neither was the same as the CD (which is Side A, Side B, alt take, as you'd expect). Is this kind of thing common? I don't often buy downloads so I had never really noticed this was an issue. itunes had it right.

Edited March 1, 2009 by David Ayers

[AndrewHill]

Glad I have the TOCJ

[BFrank]

Glad I have the Select!